Pistol build?

[03mossy]

Search function is coming up empty. Has anybody done a smokeless .45 pistol. Something like an encore frame, shortened and converted 45/70 barrel?

[Deleted]

I havent seen one around but I think it would be neat. Probably have to devise a way to get mechanical advantage for loading.

[Deleted]

someone built one a couple years back, 15" barrel if I recall?

[dannoboone]

Careful building a pistol lest you break ATF regs.
If you have an Encore frame that was SOLD as a PISTOL
frame, it's OK to put either a pistol or rifle barrel
on it. But if an Encore frame was sold as a RIFLE
frame, you can get in deep doodoo putting a pistol
barrel on it. Same frame, different paperwork. So
much for common sense in fed regs!

[03mossy]

Thanks Danno, I ran in to all that building my AR. Wanted a short handy AR so I went with a 14.5" barrel and pinned and welded the flash hider to make the legal 16"...

If I do pursue this I'll buy a pistol frame and it will stay that way. I think it be a fun wood gun with some 195 barnes!

[Deleted]

and a handful!

[linebaugh]

I had a .50 encore barrel that I think was 14 or 15 inches. I don't think I ever chronied it but I shot the same 300gr bullet and N120 load that I shot through my savage at the time. Kicked like a mule but it shot quite well. I don't remember the details but I do know it was plenty accurate and powerful.
That was the third time I went through the single shot pistol phase and each time I promptly decided it wasn't for me. For me a scoped handgun is a bench gun only but had that encore had open sights I may have enjoyed it longer.

[03mossy]

Jul 17, 2014 8:10:46 GMT -5 linebaugh said:

I had a .50 encore barrel that I think was 14 or 15 inches. I don't think I ever chronied it but I shot the same 300gr bullet and N120 load that I shot through my savage at the time. Kicked like a mule but it shot quite well. I don't remember the details but I do know it was plenty accurate and powerful.
That was the third time I went through the single shot pistol phase and each time I promptly decided it wasn't for me. For me a scoped handgun is a bench gun only but had that encore had open sights I may have enjoyed it longer.

Maybe it would be smarter to pick up a Optima v2 pistol to play with for a while to see if its a platform I'd want to invest the money in with a build?

[linebaugh]

Mossy,
It just isn't my thing... That doesn't mean you or many others wouldn't like it or do well with a scoped pistol.
I used to shoot buckets of handgun ammo a year and most of that was through big single action five or six guns. I don't shoot as much anymore but I never could get into the scope on a handgun thing. They shoot great but it's just hard for me to shoot them well and I pretty much resorted to benching them exclusively. Since I mostly hunt that makes for a very poor combo for me. That said a bipod may serve you quite well.
I've seen guys do some amazing shooting with scoped handguns offhand and off benches so don't let my dribble discourage you.

As far as the gun goes. You could have a 45-70 barrel on an encore or contender cut for a savage plug and be shooting pretty reasonable if you already have a thompson center. I'm quite sure the combo will shoot very well for you and have ample power to pile deer up out to a couple hundred yards. If you are man enough to carry a 16.25" barrel on a pistol you could also use the same combo as a wonderful little carbine if that helps you any.

Good luck with the project. Hope to see some groups from a smokeless pistol build on here someday.

[Deleted]

.50 cal savage striker pistol:

Pretty sure he's a member here. Just use a .45 barrel instead of a .50

[03mossy]

Recoil didn't look bad at all in that video.

The more I'm looking into this the more I might be talking myself into this lol.

What would be the best twist rate to go with a 14" barrel? shooting Sabots

[linebaugh]

Twist same as rifle. 1:22-24 Could get by with less twist if you only intend to shoot the 200gr saboted stuff. Also 200gr saboted would likely not be too hard on the shooter. Might want to concentrate on slightly faster powder due to the shorter bbl but it may not matter all that much either.

Finished combo could easily exceed 2000fps with a 200gr bullet which would be plenty powerful. The above numbers would get you in the 1775 ft/lb range which would put you in the 454 casull class or along the lines of .35 remington for power. Anything over 2000fps is gravy at that point.

Fun project. Would like to see you do it.

[03mossy]

Jul 18, 2014 11:09:24 GMT -5 linebaugh said:

Fun project. Would like to see you do it.

So your on board with donations for the project then??

LOL

[linebaugh]

I was hoping to enjoy your project vicariously.

I'm getting tired of donating to my own projects so I for sure can't help on yours. I s'pose I could donate my trigger finger and my range if you want to bring it to Iowa when finished. Heck I'd even throw in a meal or two, a place to stay and some adult beverages.

[03mossy]

You might have sold me with the adult beverages!


I Sent an email to mgm yesterday for a quote on both a .45 smokeless barrel or a 45/70 barrel, then I would send that to slufoot. I also emailed Luke to see if McGowan or pacnor could do one for a savage action. Ball is rolling....

[Deleted]

Just make sure you build off a non-firearm action. I think if you use an ml-II or 700ml action you can escape the nfa rules. I also believe you can have a savage or remmy of less than 16" and leave the stock as is to have a super shorty without it being a SBR. With FFL controlled firearms once something starts as a rifle it's hard to legally make it a pistol.

[03mossy]

If I go the Savage route I can buy a new bare action and register it as pistol to follow the rules. Same with and encore.

[linebaugh]

Last couple bits are interesting thoughts. Myers may well be right that the non-centerfire actions may be used in any configuration or as a short barreled rifle which would normally be considered a destructive device or whatever the ATF calls it. I would want to be very certain of that plan before I went and jumped over the edge. Around my neck of the woods you would likely be in trouble either way. I'm sure none of our enforcement officers would know the ins and outs on that so I would plan on being in trouble until found innocent at a later date. I'm far too pretty and delicate for jail so I think that is a good idea for someone else to test.

As for the second part I think Mossy better get a second opinion before going in the savage target action direction. The action will be numbered and my best guess is it will be sold as a rifle action meaning it is not to be used as a handgun. I have no idea what it would take to reverse and re-classify an action and don't plan to find out. I could be very wrong on this also but cover your butt buddy.
On the upshot I highly doubt you would ever have a a problem in handgun form until it was sold and transferred on paper and even then I bet it would be overlooked.

There are probably thousands and thousands of encore and contender frames running around out of configuration in the US. This may or may not be legal but I highly doubt you will ever find out unless you are already a bad dude to begin with and get the shackles with a mis-configured rig in your possession.
I'm not so sure thompson isn't exempt from this rule anyway. Think I read that they are exempt somewhere but somebody on here probably knows for certain.

If you are going to spend the money on a savage action you can probably buy a striker for about the same money and already have a stock to work with and none of the questions. Pretty sure the barrel thread is standard small shank on striker.

[linebaugh]

Just think of the barrel drop you will have! You could make a full form die for every day of the week. Lol

[03mossy]

Hotter than ..... outside so I'm doing some googling on the issue and found this interesting article.

www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239