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Post by encore50a on May 17, 2014 14:38:00 GMT -5
Couldn't stand it, so I headed to the range today. Windy and light rain but I shot anyway. Not quite as good a target as two weeks ago.
The range needs some work after the hard winter. The backstops are 4'x8' sheets of OSB board.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 20:19:11 GMT -5
What load what bullet what gun...? You put 3 in the boiler room at 400yds....
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Post by encore50a on May 17, 2014 22:05:12 GMT -5
Ultimate BP Xpress with 100grs weight of BH and a 300gr SST.
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Post by usmcssgt on May 18, 2014 9:21:28 GMT -5
Nice shooting!
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Post by encore50a on May 18, 2014 17:06:02 GMT -5
20 moa base throws off the turret. Shot today at 300yds and reset the turret, then dialed it to 4 and shot 400yds. Each bullet hit 7"+ high. It was suggested that it would happen and affect the range/turret, which it did. Never had a problem from 100yd to 400yds with the Warne base. Came home and pulled it off and put the Warne back on.  |
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Post by ronlaughlin on May 18, 2014 19:59:04 GMT -5
OK, picture this: I sight in my rifle at 100 yard. Then i clock the speed of the bullet. Then i use a ballistic program to calculate how many moa i need to elevate to be zeroed at 300 yard. It tells me say.. 13 moa. Then i dial up 13 moa, and shoot the rifle at 300 yard, and find the bullets hitting paper just as the program tell me they should.
Then i install a 20 moa base on the rifle, and thus have to re zero the rifle/scope at 100 yard. Then i clock the speed of the bullet which turns out to be the same it was before the 20 moa base. Then i use a ballistic program to calculate how many moa i need to elevate to be zero at 300 yard. Of course the program calculate 13 moa. Then i dial up 13 moa. The bullet will hit the same place it hit before the installation of the 20 moa base. The existence of the 20 moa base is irrelevant to the speed of the bullet, and to the calculation of the ballistic program is it not? There is no entry in the ballistic program for base type.
Please explain how the 20 moa base can affect the load specific marks on the turret.
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Post by encore50a on May 18, 2014 20:39:30 GMT -5
OK, picture this: I sight in my rifle at 100 yard. Then i clock the speed of the bullet. Then i use a ballistic program to calculate how many moa i need to elevate to be zeroed at 300 yard. It tells me say.. 13 moa. Then i dial up 13 moa, and shoot the rifle at 300 yard, and find the bullets hitting paper just as the program tell me they should. Then i install a 20 moa base on the rifle, and thus have to re zero the rifle/scope at 100 yard. Then i clock the speed of the bullet which turns out to be the same it was before the 20 moa base. Then i use a ballistic program to calculate how many moa i need to elevate to be zero at 300 yard. Of course the program calculate 13 moa. Then i dial up 13 moa. The bullet will hit the same place it hit before the installation of the 20 moa base. The existence of the 20 moa base is irrelevant to the speed of the bullet, and to the calculation of the ballistic program is it not? There is no entry in the ballistic program for base type. Please explain how the 20 moa base can affect the load specific marks on the turret. Ron I have absolutely no clue. What I do know is, that when I put the 20 moa base on things changed and when hitting dead on at 300yds, then turning the turret to 4, then shooting 400 yards, it shot 7"+ higher. With the flat base Warne, if I zeroed at 100yds, it was on at 200, 300 and 400yds. Dead on.
Personally IMO, it makes no sense at all. Nothing, absolutely nothing is changed, other than the addition of the 20 moa base. If the bullets hadn't grouped at 400, then I'd have to have concluded it was me. However the bullets grouped 7" above the POI.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 21:13:49 GMT -5
You are changing the angle of the scope imo...The turrets were designed for a scope mounted on 0 moa mount....
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Post by bestill on May 18, 2014 21:37:09 GMT -5
Base is irrelevant. If you set zero at 100 yds turrets will be correct regardless. Scope has no ideal what angle it is mounted. If base angle was a factor it would be included in ballistic chart calculations. For example if yo order turrets for given fps and b.c. they don't consider base type. You have a glitch somewhere. Did you turn scope back to zero and cofirm after 400 yd shot s. Seems something moved. Id recommend putting back on and shooting all yardages on turrets at 100 yds and see if bullet clinbs moa that match turrets
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Post by ronlaughlin on May 18, 2014 22:22:03 GMT -5
 The photo shows the questions one ballistic calculator asks, so it can calculate the flight of a bullet. It doesn't ask if there is a 20 moa base. However, it does need to know the sight height. The installation of the 20 moa base, may have changed the sight height, and this may have made the yardage marks on the elevation dial incorrect. |
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Post by lakeplainshunter on May 19, 2014 3:42:34 GMT -5
The photo shows the questions one ballistic calculator asks, so it can calculate the flight of a bullet. It doesn't ask if there is a 20 moa base. However, it does need to know the sight height. The installation of the 20 moa base, may have changed the sight height, and this may have made the yardage marks on the elevation dial incorrect. This is exactly what I was thinking. Leupold asks you for that when you get a CDS Dial made. |
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Post by bestill on May 19, 2014 4:10:15 GMT -5
Don't believe scope height is the remedy. I believe a 20 moa will change height by .020 per mount up one side and down other. Reticle height to barrel doesn't change. Even if move scope height bye .500. Only change moa at 500 yds by like .1. So would change impact by .500
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Post by encore50a on May 19, 2014 6:15:43 GMT -5
Don't believe scope height is the remedy. I believe a 20 moa will change height by .020 per mount up one side and down other. Reticle height to barrel doesn't change. Even if move scope height bye .500. Only change moa at 500 yds by like .1. So would change impact by .500 I ran some figures through my ballistics software and I believe you're correct. The advertised data for this rifle can be found here: ultimatefirearms.com/muzzleloaderballistics.php
Been thinking (probably a problem), with the Warne mounts the cross lock on the rings fit TIGHT in the base, with "0" movement of the rings in the mount. They obviously lock up great. However with the 20 moa base, a Weaver, the slots are much wider and the rings can be moved significantly within the slots. When the scope was mounted, the rings were moved forward in the slots and secured first, then the scope mounted and secured.
This rifle and load has a lot of recoil, and I'm wondering if the cross lock and size of the slots could have played a roll? Being its a Weaver 20 moa mount, would I be better to try the Weaver Grand Slam rings before giving up?
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Post by bestill on May 19, 2014 6:48:44 GMT -5
Cross slot seem bit loose on all ive tried alot of opinions about install most recommend push rings forward and tighten.. i usually push ft mount forward and tighten then push rr mt to back and tighten.
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Post by encore50a on May 21, 2014 5:49:30 GMT -5
Well its back to "square one". I removed the 20 moa base and installed a new set of Leupold bases and rings on it yesterday. If it remains calm and no rain, I may run to the club range later in the day to verify that the turret and POI remains constant at long range.
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Post by bestill on May 21, 2014 6:30:25 GMT -5
Something about your original setup messing with my mind . Your ballistic chart shows only need21.8 moa to cover drop to 500 yds. And vx6 should have 37.5 moa from center of elevation adjustment. Just thinking?
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Post by bestill on May 21, 2014 6:52:39 GMT -5
Have a thought. To ck scope correction i setup at 100 yds and put target low with room for up correction, then fire one shot at 100 then same aim point dial 200 300 400 500. Moa posted on target should match turrets and chart. That eliminate scope question . Then go down range see if ballistic chart correct.
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