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Post by lilcountry on May 15, 2014 0:25:23 GMT -5
I just inherited a Remington 700 ML 50 ca. stainless. It appears to be in like new condition. I am new to muzzleloaders and would appreciate any advice you can give me to get started. I know it is a broad question, but I don't know anything about muzzleloaders. Any information about powder/bullet combinations, cleaning/lubricating tips, accessories (it did not come with any accessories/tools), or anything else I might need to know would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by hunter on May 15, 2014 6:28:39 GMT -5
I would recommend a .457 300 gr bullet with a harvester black crushed rib sabot.
I have also used the 250 and 300 gr .452 xtp's with the harvester smooth black sabot.
Powder choice would depend on the ignition system you have.
I personally have installed the hunter 209 bolt kit on all of my 700ml's and use 90-100gr's of blackhorn
209 powder with the above bullet-sabot combo. I use cci 209m primers with blackhorn 209.
Since I sell these kits my opinion may be bias so you can get other peoples opinion on this conversion.
Where are you located, A few western states may require you to use an open breach system and no sabots.
If you have the #11 cap nipple and want to stay with this system I would try 90 gr of 777 powder with
the above mentioned bullet combo.
You can use a 7/16 socket and long extension-3/8" drive, to remove the breech plug for cleaning.
You will need a allen wrench (5/32 I think) to remove the bolt before you can get to the breech plug.
A ramrod extension or a longer cleaning rod with a 50 cal brush and jag for cleaning the bore.
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Post by usmcssgt on May 15, 2014 6:55:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 15:16:50 GMT -5
Great advice given. I second the hunter bolt nose/plug conversion. Get in touch with hunter or one of the gents on this board who install hunter's conversion kits and have it converted and never look back. You will be happy.
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Post by foxgrape on May 15, 2014 15:27:23 GMT -5
Where are you located? A little range time with an experienced MZ/SL shooter could move you ahead quickly.
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Post by lilcountry on May 15, 2014 22:32:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. I'm in Oklahoma so sabots are ok.I've downloaded the owner manual and have been reading reviews and forums for about six hours. The rifle is original, but I know the previous owner talked about getting a 209 conversion. There seem to be several out there, but the Hunter conversion seems to get the highest praise. I'll probably shoot it some like it is so I can appreciate the conversion when I do it. (And from reading all the experiences, I'm sure I will.)Thanks for the load suggestions. I hope to go by Bass Pro tomorrow and pick up some supplies. After reading about frozen breech plugs on stored guns I got a little worried. This gun had been stored 3 years with the plug in it. No worries though, I got it out. The rifle has obviously been thoroughly cleaned and well cared for. I do have a friend that is fairly new to muzzle loaders. I think he took his first deer with one last year. He doesn't have any experience with Remington though. Hopefully we can do some shooting soon.
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Post by jims on May 16, 2014 10:50:39 GMT -5
I have the hunter conversion in a Rem700ml I purchased and it is working fine. It was in before I got it and the prior owner had about 300 shots through it and all is well.
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Post by lilcountry on May 16, 2014 16:09:06 GMT -5
Holy cow! I should have asked where is the best place to get supplies. I bet there are some online stores that would have saved me some money. Bass Pro was expensive and did not have much selection in ammo.Fortunately I had a couple gift cards to help out. I got a hard case, triple 7, primers, a couple type slug/sabots, short starter, powder measure, and some cleaning supplies. Now if I can just find time to do some shooting.
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Post by lilcountry on May 16, 2014 16:15:11 GMT -5
So, is there a super great on-line store for muzzle loader supplies?
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Post by lilcountry on May 16, 2014 17:19:13 GMT -5
What is the difference in Blackhorn 209, 777, and Pyrodex. Why can I shoot Blackhorn with the conversion, but not with #11 primers?
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Post by hunter on May 16, 2014 19:13:13 GMT -5
Blackhorn 209 is similar to smokeless powder and the #11 cap does not have enough fire to ignite it.
The 209 conversion is a closed breech system and forces all the flame from the 209 primer into the
powder to ignite it. Also the plunger is replaced with a firing pin and bolt nose which eliminates
the problem with blowback pressure from recocking the bolt upon ignition.
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topprop
Button Buck
make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands
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Post by topprop on Jun 16, 2014 16:07:19 GMT -5
I too was given a 700MLS a few years ago. I got a 209 conversion (the type where you screw in a nipple and replace the firing pin). Still get lots of blow back. I plan on saving my money and getting a Hunter 209 bolt conversion, and then I guess I'll need a new breach plug. From reading the various forums it seems the new breach plug will need to be a Savage ML10-II type to fit my 700MLS's stock 50 cal barrel. But I also understand that there are two types of Hunter 209 conversions (one for going smokeless, and another for staying 'smokey').
Seeing I hope to one day perhaps go smokless it looks like i'll need to purchase a smokeless 209 nose, and then take about .085 off of the Savage ML10-II breach plug...
I'm hoping that some of the wise owls here will be able to shed light on what I've surmised with many hours of reading various forums...
Oh and right now I'm shooting 80gr of 777, MMP black sabots with hornady 250gr xtp .45 bullets... that is what my rifle likes best.
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Post by hunter on Jun 16, 2014 17:19:03 GMT -5
The savage plug will not fit in the Remington barrel.
I have a plug that will work with the smokeless bolt kit.
When you get ready to do the conversion PM me and I will fix you up.
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Post by rjhans53 on Jun 16, 2014 20:59:02 GMT -5
I 3rd or 20th the hunters bolt nose conversion, best money you will EVER spend. Mine have the conversion on them (all 3) I shoot 60 gr by weight of bh 209 under a 250 saboted bullet. Happen to be shooting the sst's right now but they shoot them all. 100 gr t7 will do about the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 7:30:08 GMT -5
Make sure to wear glasses while shooting ....the blowby on the original system can be hazardous....
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Post by 10ga on Jun 17, 2014 11:08:00 GMT -5
All good posts. I have 2 remmy 700ML and both have been fitted with the Hunter bolt nose and custom breech plug. Awsome accuracy and handle real good. My standard load for the 700 MLs (both are 45 cal and have the hunter bolt nose and customized breechplug) is 70 gr. weighed blackhorn and the smooth blue sabot and 40 cal 200 gr SST. very accurate and not so much recoil.
All the above posts are good info and the Hunter nose kit and BP is well worth the money. I do use the .458 bullets in my 50 Savage SML and they are good. I prefer the Speer 300 gr. .458 bullet and the orange sabot in one rifle and the black crush rib in a different gun. Of course that is in SML but the .458 bullets are the best way to go in a 50 smokey or smokeless. 10
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topprop
Button Buck
make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands
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Post by topprop on Jun 17, 2014 13:43:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the PM Hunter. Looking forward to having my 700ML finally work "right" with one of your bolt nose mods and new breach plug.
All others... apparently I couldn't PM until I posted... its under control now!
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topprop
Button Buck
make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands
Posts: 18
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Post by topprop on Jun 18, 2014 19:16:38 GMT -5
Can any one recommend whether to use the mmp hph12 or the hph24 with the stock 700mls 50 cal and 451 bullets? I imagine that I'll be able to load hotter than 80gr 777 with a hunter bolt mod and switching to bh209...
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Post by hunter on Jun 19, 2014 5:26:37 GMT -5
If you use .457 or .458 bullets and the harvester black crushed rib fits mine good.
The mmp 24 with .452 bullets is a little loose and the bullets may need knurled.
The mmp 12 is to tight in my gun with .452 bullets but may work with a .4505 bullet
like the barnes or sierra. I never used the .451 bullets much.
If you start with 1 of the top 2 suggestions you should be OK.
BH209 needs a tight bullet-sabot fit for good ignition.
If you have ignition problems, try a tighter fit bullet.
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topprop
Button Buck
make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands
Posts: 18
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Post by topprop on Jun 22, 2014 13:53:46 GMT -5
If you use .457 or .458 bullets and the harvester black crushed rib fits mine good. The mmp 24 with .452 bullets is a little loose and the bullets may need knurled. The mmp 12 is to tight in my gun with .452 bullets but may work with a .4505 bullet like the barnes or sierra. I never used the .451 bullets much. If you start with 1 of the top 2 suggestions you should be OK. BH209 needs a tight bullet-sabot fit for good ignition. If you have ignition problems, try a tighter fit bullet. I just looked at my box of Hornady xtp's... They are. 452... I didn't know that one could knurl bullets to improve sabot fit... Is there a tool for this that you recommend? |
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Post by hunter on Jun 22, 2014 15:25:58 GMT -5
Most people just use two files, put the bullet on one file, lay the other on top of it.
Then apply pressure downward and roll the bullet between the files a couple times.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 20:34:01 GMT -5
You can pretty easily make one that's good enough... They don't have to be fancy. One revolution does .001-.003" depending on the bullet you are using   |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 9:16:16 GMT -5
That's cheating Myers.....now you got make one for everyone or it just wouldn't be right,lol.......
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Post by rambler on Jun 23, 2014 10:46:18 GMT -5
I second that thought LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 10:57:36 GMT -5
With that quality of product does $0.75 sound about right for cost?  |
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Jun 23, 2014 11:09:00 GMT -5
With that quality of product does $0.75 sound about right for cost? That is a lot cheaper than two files. |
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Post by daveeck on Sept 4, 2014 20:00:22 GMT -5
Great advice given. I second the hunter bolt nose/plug conversion. Get in touch with hunter or one of the gents on this board who install hunter's conversion kits and have it converted and never look back. You will be happy. |
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Post by anaconda44 on Dec 11, 2014 16:53:54 GMT -5
Blackhorn 209 is similar to smokeless powder and the #11 cap does not have enough fire to ignite it. The 209 conversion is a closed breech system and forces all the flame from the 209 primer into the powder to ignite it. Also the plunger is replaced with a firing pin and bolt nose which eliminates the problem with blowback pressure from recocking the bolt upon ignition. Hunter can you pm me for the cost of the 700 ml conversion kit with breech plug.? thanks
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