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Post by oldsnow on Apr 17, 2014 11:36:28 GMT -5
Back in February I ordered a breach plug from Savage for a H&R 45X70 conversion and,I was told it would be back ordered four weeks. Yester day I called Savage to confirm that they still had my order and when they thought it be shipped. The person I spoke to said that they will be getting breach plugs in sometime in May and then they will be filling their orders. Let hope so.
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Post by jims on Apr 17, 2014 21:53:37 GMT -5
I did not realize they outsource them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 22:07:48 GMT -5
Maybe Pete should start manufacturing for them. Everyone could have top notch plugs then.
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Post by cowhunter on Apr 18, 2014 21:46:24 GMT -5
That may be a good idea to have Pete make them. I know a good machinist who uses CNC machines for big telescopes. He machines a lot of stainless parts. He seems to know stainless and even fixed a stainless muzzle brake I cracked. He says that the stainless steel Pete uses is the toughest stainless he has worked with. I had him recess a Pete's Plug. I wouldn't mind having something that tough in my 700ML. But there are many smart steel guys here. Could stainless be as tough as regular steel?
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 19, 2014 0:36:48 GMT -5
You have 300 series with a annealed tensile strength of about 90ksi which can't be heat treated. Most SS fasteners are 303 or 304 SS
416 which is a free machining SS and also has a annealed tensile strength of 90ksi but can be heat treated to around 200ksi max. With gun barrels the tensile strength after hardening, tempering and stress relieving is around 150-160ksi.
17-4 has a annealed tensile strength of like 160ksi but again you can heat treat it to over 220ksi. Not for barrels but you will see some aftermarket actions and pistol frames made from it.
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Post by jims on Apr 19, 2014 7:25:51 GMT -5
I knew Ken could provide us some good information.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 19, 2014 9:49:41 GMT -5
Usually 4140 is just a tad more then 1000 series steel, 416 SS is twice as much as 4140. Then 17-4 is twice the cost of 416 and if you go one more step, titanium can be 4X the cost of 17-4. When I was looking into making my own actions a 1.5" bar 1' long was going to cost me $17 in 4140, $30 in 416, $60 in 17-4 but to cut the weight in half using titanium, the bar was going to cost me over $250. Then to avoid heat treating afterwards you can order the metal pre-hardened but then your tooling time and tooling wear goes up. For example Remington cuts their actions from hardened steel so no heat treating afterwards, Savage cuts their actions from softer annealed steel and then heat treats after machining. That's why you get the "Savage Warp" Savage 4140 actions being fired up in induction coils,  The coils slid to the right and drop them into a trough of water/oil with a conveyor belt in the bottom. The old way was for a guy with tongs to pick up the action out of the induction coil and toss it into the water. SS actions are now heated in a inert atmosphere furnace and then dropped out of the bottom of the furnace into oil. These little improvements result in a better finish, or at least one the requires less work to get the final finish. |
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Post by cuda on Apr 20, 2014 7:05:09 GMT -5
Ken which is better on the metal a slow or fast heating cycle? I was told by an old guy that the slower you brought the metal to high temp the better temper it would hold. Now I see it done in seconds. So which is the better way to temper metal fast or slow and are they the same hardness afterwards? Or is there a trade out for speed of the heat cycle cost? Is there a liquid use around the receivers and it looks like it is just heating he ends?
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 20, 2014 8:38:41 GMT -5
You have to remember the steps in heat treating, your confusing hardening and tempering. If you take annealed steel (soft) and run it up in temperature to red hot (1600° F)and "quench" in oil or water you are hardening it. Now you got it super hard but when super hard it is brittle, instead of bending it just breaks. So to drop the hardness some you can heat the metal up again to temper it. How hot you get it during tempering will determine the amount of hardness left. You will temper at between 800-1200° and air cool, If you stress relieve it will be usually at the same temp or slightly less. Every alloy is different on what heats it likes and then there is the chance of "temper embrittlement" if you hold it a certain temps too long.
When you heat in a oven or furnace that is convection heat. Induction heating is magnetic, more closer to what a microwave is to food, so your heating from the inside somewhat. I think the coils are on the receiver rings as that is the most mass.
If your not familiar with induction heating the copper coils you see carry electricity and do not even get very hot. On large coils like that they are hollow tube and they pump water thru them also so they can carry a lot of juice without self destructing. The coils produce a magnetic field that does the heating of what is in the center. They are probly pumping I guess about 10kw thru each one of those coil sets. Enough juice to run a couple of houses. Heating time probly 2 minutes max depending on the frequency they use.
As far as time some metals/alloys like time, even more so in the tempering phase. High carbon tool steel is one, IIRC some SS alloys are another.
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