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Post by edwardamason on Mar 25, 2014 22:34:44 GMT -5
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Post by edwardamason on Mar 25, 2014 22:36:05 GMT -5
He's not a fanboy of Ultimate for some reason! Must have not gotten free stuff!
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Post by sagittarius on Mar 25, 2014 23:42:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Edward.
Hope they keep the price on the $750.00 mark.
If so, they should sell a ton of them.
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Post by 7mmfreak on Mar 26, 2014 7:16:21 GMT -5
I'm not a fanboy of Wakeman. Him saying someone is rude or pretentious is the pot calling the kettle black.
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Post by encore50a on Mar 26, 2014 8:16:30 GMT -5
Well I'm just about to prove or disprove Randy's statements in a short. My new Ultimate is built and ready to be picked up. The intent when I pick it up, is to head to the range and shoot the rifle with a representative, learning what tips and tricks they recommend. The weather hasn't cooperated very well for that and a family tragedy (ours) prevented my ability to pick up and shoot the rifle on a couple good days last week.
I've had a number of conversations with Ken and talked with Randy. The statements about customer service mentioned in the above article, I find completely false to date and don't expect it to change. What I do know and understand is, Ken is a dedicated master gunsmith and very proud of what he builds. That's no different than any builder that I may read about here on the board or any other forum/board. I very much look forward to meeting and talking with Ken when I pick up my new Ultimate, which will be shortly.......... |
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Post by elkstalkr on Mar 26, 2014 10:45:09 GMT -5
So will Ultimate Firearms be able to continue producing their patented breech plug or did Remington completely buy the rights out for sole production?
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Post by gar on Mar 26, 2014 11:46:04 GMT -5
Ken will still be assembling his higher end products, just not the BPExprees from my understanding.
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Post by rubberduck on Apr 21, 2014 12:34:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 12:40:33 GMT -5
Story said it all for me. "When the smoke cleared, I could see...."
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Post by dannoboone on Apr 21, 2014 17:42:03 GMT -5
Hope they keep the price on the $750.00 mark. If so, they should sell a ton of them. MSRP...................$1295 My last Rem .45 build...$950 Wakeman making an azz of himself again...Priceless |
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Post by 153 on Apr 21, 2014 18:23:11 GMT -5
Using info from loads above on this board 300SST x 58 gr of H4198 At 2275 fps use 301 for bullet weight guessing the wad for sabot less weight of 1 gr
His info per video 312(300 bullet + 12 gr for sabot) x 200 gr of pellet at 2200 fps
This is what recoil calculator came up with
Load One
Bullet weight in grains 312
Velocity in fps 2200
Powder charge in grains 200
Weight of firearm in lbs 9.5
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec) 6.59
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps) 22.35
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs) 73.7
Load Two
Bullet weight in grains 301
Velocity in fps 2272
Powder charge in grains 58
Weight of firearm in lbs 9.5
Recoil impulse in (lbs sec) 4.06
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps) 13.77
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs) 27.98
I think I will stick with what we shoot here, 73+ pounds of recoil is not for me.
My personal load with the .45 RemPac with the 195 Barnes over 60 grains of 4198@2600 fps comes in around 20 recoil, just kills on one end, and I don't have to wait for the smoke to clear to see a dead deer.
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Post by hunter on Apr 21, 2014 18:33:45 GMT -5
Are these just 50 cal. or are they making a 45?
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Post by gar on Apr 21, 2014 18:57:43 GMT -5
50 cal. 28 twist. Nothing special, just a decent breech plug system and should be no blow back.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 21, 2014 22:32:39 GMT -5
Using info from loads above on this board 300SST x 58 gr of H4198 At 2275 fps use 301 for bullet weight guessing the wad for sabot less weight of 1 gr His info per video 312(300 bullet + 12 gr for sabot) x 200 gr of pellet at 2200 fps This is what recoil calculator came up with Load One Bullet weight in grains 312 Velocity in fps 2200 Powder charge in grains 200 Weight of firearm in lbs 9.5 Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec) 6.59 Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps) 22.35 Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs) 73.7 Load Two Bullet weight in grains 301 Velocity in fps 2272 Powder charge in grains 58 Weight of firearm in lbs 9.5 Recoil impulse in (lbs sec) 4.06 Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps) 13.77 Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs) 27.98 I think I will stick with what we shoot here, 73+ pounds of recoil is not for me. My personal load with the .45 RemPac with the 195 Barnes over 60 grains of 4198@2600 fps comes in around 20 recoil, just kills on one end, and I don't have to wait for the smoke to clear to see a dead deer. One small problem with that equation, 200gr of pellets does not weigh 200gr. Its an equivalent and weighs less. Im sure it would still have more recoil than 58gr of H4198 though. |
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Post by warrior on Apr 21, 2014 22:37:18 GMT -5
Encore,
I have no dog in the fight here but I was one of those frustrated Ultimate Muzzleloader owners. I do not know Randy but he summed up my experience. It was the first year of production for Ultimate and maybe things have changed but it was bad. So bad that I called Henry Ball who led me to the original Savage. The ballistics that Ken gave me were never close to what my Chronograph displayed and I could never get anyone to offer any help from the company. It was an awful month that finally ended with Ken taking the gun back. With that said, my friend owns one and loves it. I wish you the best and would appreciate hearing your results.
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Post by madcityhoosier on Apr 22, 2014 6:07:28 GMT -5
How does one go about unscrewing that breech plug? I don't see any provisions for tool engagement on that plug. |
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Post by encore50a on Apr 22, 2014 7:22:10 GMT -5
Encore, I have no dog in the fight here but I was one of those frustrated Ultimate Muzzleloader owners. I do not know Randy but he summed up my experience. It was the first year of production for Ultimate and maybe things have changed but it was bad. So bad that I called Henry Ball who led me to the original Savage. The ballistics that Ken gave me were never close to what my Chronograph displayed and I could never get anyone to offer any help from the company. It was an awful month that finally ended with Ken taking the gun back. With that said, my friend owns one and loves it. I wish you the best and would appreciate hearing your results. First, I understand that I'm in a smokeless forum, so guys PLEASE give me a little break, I won't attack your smokeless rifles....... I read the forum posts to gain knowledge from those who love the activity, just as I do with smoke belchers.
What I ...... "think"....... I understand, is that with any business they can all be pretty dedicated to their product and processes, sometimes without waver and including bluntness. I again "think" that in the beginning Ultimate with a newly patented design, was worried about patent infringement and actually corporate spies. BELIEVE ME, there are corporate spies. What I do know from spending considerable time at a table with Ken, is he's very passionate about his builds, no different than anyone else who builds custom rifles. Once he realized that I wasn't just another "common muzzleloader" looking for information or asking stupid questions (lack of terminology here guys), he freed up considerably. He explained to me that he has hundreds of well meaning people call him about concerns totally unrelated to the Ultimate rifle. I would assume that this might get under a person's skin, just as it does when the phone rings and its a telemarketer, over and over. Imagine that happening 20 times a day. However.... this shouldn't be the case when a true customer calls, I believe we can all agree on that. At least in your case, the rifle was taken back.
To date, I'm very happy with the Ultimate. I was supposed to go to the range and shoot the rifle with them. However a family urgency changed my plan. Ken bore sighted the rifle for me, then I took care of my remaining family business. When I was finally able to shoot it, I started right out at 100yds. In total, I fired twelve (12) rounds. It took three shots to get an acceptable zero for the first session. The next nine (9) rounds went into the same hole, enlarging it. Because of our weather, I've had one other opportunity to shoot the rifle. I admit I was hurried, as the "little woman" had requested I perform other tasks. Being hurried, my groups weren't anything like the first session. However......... I have a tendency to also work somewhat out of the norm and do things at times different than recommendations. So my groups that day also included me shooting BH209 from the Ultimate, which it shot perfectly. I also shot a different brand of bullet/sabot combination that day for trial. Yes, I know that wasn't the right way but, we all stray at times.
I finally received a couple hundred BE's and am now waiting for a decent day to head to the local sportsman club, where I can extend my distance. I can shoot 150yds in the back yard, and 200 in the field across the road but, that's to muddy. At the sportsmen's club, they have a range to 600yds. My intent is to shoot 100grs by WEIGHT of BH209 and the Parker 300gr BE's. Its my intent to shoot just the 200yd range and adjust the scope turret properly for the load. My suspicion over my intent is, that knowing I'm right there and its in front of me, I may take a few pokes at 400yds.
What I can say about the Ultimate is, it is what is advertised. The fired brass comes out identically as clean as before fired. The entire chamber is as clean after firing as before firing. It does burn all the T7M pellets and turns it into a fine dust like material. I follow the recommendations and swab with one patch between shots when using pellets. I learned that this does two things, one to remove the fine dust and second, to slightly lube the barrel for the next round. It cleans easier and faster than any other BP substitute muzzleloader I've ever owned, which has been many, starting back in "73". Four or five patches, including the final lubrication patch is very quick. Pretty much exactly as one could view on a youtube video. As for the burn of the pellets, I can say that shooting them is cleaner than shooting one shot of BH209. The breech plug never needs to be removed. I know, that's odd and much different than inline muzzleloaders are accustomed to. However if you have a muzzle brake, that is removed and cleaned. I look forward to my next shoot.......
CORPORATE SPIES: Try calling Leupold and ask them just exactly what force, in foot pounds, their scopes are tested to. The only answer you'll obtain is, that they're tested to the force of a .375 H&H. I tried going up the ladder at Leupold for more accurate information, as I was interested in comparing scope failures to fpe recoil that many rifles produce. I got just so far and they just flat out told me, that the actual information was corporate confidential. They actually accused me of possibly being a corporate spy for another scope manufacturer, just as they call other manufacturers and try to gain data.
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Post by chaded on Apr 22, 2014 9:54:41 GMT -5
Now if Remington would drop the price a couple hundred dollars they will be in line with what a custom pellet shooter should be. Hopefully they don't start selling Hornady SST's that they renamed at the price of $70.00 for 50 of them like Ultimate does. Wow what a ripoff.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 22, 2014 13:36:31 GMT -5
Now if Remington would drop the price a couple hundred dollars they will be in line with what a custom pellet shooter should be. Hopefully they don't start selling Hornady SST's that they renamed at the price of $70.00 for 50 of them like Ultimate does. Wow what a ripoff. But but but...you get the sabots too and the Fury is $90/50  |
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Post by elkstalkr on Apr 22, 2014 21:26:41 GMT -5
Story said it all for me. "When the smoke cleared, I could see...." LMAO!!! SO TRUE! |
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Post by elkstalkr on Apr 22, 2014 21:27:52 GMT -5
Hope they keep the price on the $750.00 mark. If so, they should sell a ton of them. MSRP...................$1295 My last Rem .45 build...$950 Wakeman making an azz of himself again...Priceless Yea that $1295 price is way over the top. Good luck selling these suckers. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2014 21:33:58 GMT -5
The question I have is if I put a ventliner or bushing plug in it is it going to be smokeless capable ?...this is a smokeless board ,right..? If not ,check it of as another smoker.......
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Post by sagittarius on Apr 22, 2014 23:30:18 GMT -5
My guess is, it can handle smokeless but Remington will never admit it. Which smokeless powder do you guys suggest to try first ? LOL  |
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Post by Jon on Apr 23, 2014 0:52:34 GMT -5
I bet the b/p might be a problem with smokeless?
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Post by edge on Apr 23, 2014 7:17:20 GMT -5
The question I have is if I put a ventliner or bushing plug in it is it going to be smokeless capable ?...this is a smokeless board ,right..? If not ,check it of as another smoker....... The rules of the Board do not allow open discussion of using smokeless powder in rifles the manufacturer tell you specifically not to do! No one on this board is privy to how their barrels are made and if the manufacturer says no then we must say no too. Obviously if someone chooses to ignore the warnings and use smokeless that is their business, but you still may not discuss any results openly on Doug's. edge. |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 23, 2014 8:05:45 GMT -5
Madcityhoosier, There is a hex on the nipple of the Ultimate plug that is not shown well on the cut-away. Ken's Ultimate plug was a two piece design with the nipple TIG welded into the plug. There does appear to be a longer hex on the Remington version. They may also use spin or friction welding to assemble the plug.
RW also said the new ML was using a .45LC case, I never knew .45LCs had a rebated rim.
I wonder if they will give the board credit for the storage compartment idea?
The last thing we need is the first time someone blows one up using smokeless is for the board to get blamed for it by the Remington legal staff. So as Edge said the rules will apply to this and we will be watching and will delete (with extreme prejudice) any post concerning using smokeless in a barrel not designed/designated for it.
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Post by sagittarius on Apr 23, 2014 9:21:05 GMT -5
What about a .45 Pac-Nor barrel designed for smokeless ?
No doubt, the 700 action can handle smokeless; all that remains is if the breech plug can.
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Post by Jon on Apr 23, 2014 9:44:45 GMT -5
I wonder if the action will have a solid floor? It might make it a little stiffer. Of coarse at the price it would be an expensive gun to buy for a build. Unless the action can be bought by itself at a good price?
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 23, 2014 11:26:25 GMT -5
Well I am surprised to see Remington get back into the muzzleloader game again. This one looks nice but again it limits the user to BP. If anyone in there sales dept. would do a little homework they would see States like Indiana and know Ohio are voting on straight wall center fire rifle cartridges of medium power. Indiana has had several changes to there rules. A lot of guy's have gone to the 358 Hoosier and other wildcat's. Know Indiana is thinking about making any center fire legal.
Ohio has a long list of cartridges that they don't consider as being high power. You could build a 45/70 or a 450 Marlin and push 300gr Parker match hunters well past 500 yrd and with these rifles you could install a very good muzzle brake. Time will tell but if these to big buck states are changing there rules you can bet Ill. Iowa won't be out down. Its all about getting hunters dollars.
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Post by cowhunter on Apr 23, 2014 12:31:43 GMT -5
The ignition system was the worst part of Remington's first BP, and now it is the best part. I have a knack for stating the obvious.
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