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Post by sabotloader on Mar 12, 2014 12:12:02 GMT -5
Today in this fast moving world the old Knight 1-30 twist 45 cal. rifle is sort looked down on by a bunch of us as not the RIGHT STUFF for a quality modern 45 cal. inline. The negative portion being the 1-30 twist as the a more popular twist would be faster. But for myself in my little world the old 1-30 Extreme/Elite are terrific shooters. I had moved all three of my 1-30's off and out of the house as I got caught up in the 1-20 twist of the Knight Super DISC. Recently I had the opportunity to pick up a blued Knight DISC Extreme that came to me in really really good shape - other than a small amount of pitting on the floor of the breech and at the very bottom of the bore. My original intention was that I wanted the Thumbhole Stock that came with it and I was going to use the rest for parts! It has not all worked out that way, I dropped the barreled action into a wood stock that I had acquired from Sqezer, took the TH stock to be inletted for the 'Forked Recoil Lug' and eventually down to the Big Dipper for a Camo job. I am going to go with this 'Lost' pattern  The barreled action... I have shot it 3-4 or four times on trips to the rock pit and/or the farm. The dang thing is just like a Timex 'load it - shoot it' - it really does not care what you load it with or what you shoot from it - it is just repetitive over and over again... Yesterday we made the trip to the farm, the field was really muddy but I made the trip out in the mud to set up clay birds at different ranges and different shooting angles. I set out 10 birds if a I remember correctly and then it became fun time. The rifle is really sighted in for a Lehigh/Bloodline 40x200 inside a MMP Light Tan sabot, but today all shot was Speer 40x180 Gold Dots and a couple of Nosler 40x200's. I am running out of the Noslers so I am being a bit stingy with them until I can replace them. They are an excellent shooting bullet and also would make a great 'deer' getter. Pictures are not the best in the world but hopefully you can get the idea of what was going on...  Today when I cleaned the rifle I also decided that I would try to seal the pitting up a bit so I ended up cleaning the bore 'spic & span' and then I heated the barred action with so that the pores of the barrel would open a bit and I applied Dyna*Tek bore coat to the receiver and the bore. I am hoping that this application might for a seal and bond with the small bit of pitting in the bottom of the bore. Just another one of my experiments... hope it works |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 12, 2014 12:56:29 GMT -5
IMO the faster twist 45s really shine when going sabotless (250gr+), long conicals and even sabotted 40cal bullets over 220gr. Shooting commonly used 40cal/10mm bullets in sabots, the old 1-30 is just fine. It may even handle some of the heavier bullets but more fps may be needed to stabilize them. Soft lead conicals of course have a fps limitation due to leading. Paper patching and even moly lubes can alleviate some of that problem.
I still find the faster twist to be more flexible if you want to shoot a larger variety of bullets. How fast is really needed?...Im not sure. I know my Elite 1-30 was only marginal with a 240gr and 260gr 40cal. It was good enough for 100 yard shots but i was not confident the groups would hold together much further without an increase in the charge. Recoil was already getting pretty stiff at 115gr of BH209 in the fairly light Elite.
I shot many 180gr XTPs and many many 200gr 40cals in mine and it was great with loads from 80-115gr of BH209. Recoil was pleasant and accuracy was better than i could shoot without a rest. On a sled it could stack them up for hours. The 1-28 in the Accura 45 did pretty much as well with some load adjustment but it preferred a slightly milder load on average.
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gregk
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Post by gregk on Mar 13, 2014 20:30:29 GMT -5
IMO the faster twist 45s really shine when going sabotless (250gr+), long conicals and even sabotted 40cal bullets over 220gr. Shooting commonly used 40cal/10mm bullets in sabots, the old 1-30 is just fine. It may even handle some of the heavier bullets but more fps may be needed to stabilize them. Soft lead conicals of course have a fps limitation due to leading. Paper patching and even moly lubes can alleviate some of that problem. I still find the faster twist to be more flexible if you want to shoot a larger variety of bullets. How fast is really needed?...Im not sure. I know my Elite 1-30 was only marginal with a 240gr and 260gr 40cal. It was good enough for 100 yard shots but i was not confident the groups would hold together much further without an increase in the charge. Recoil was already getting pretty stiff at 115gr of BH209 in the fairly light Elite. I shot many 180gr XTPs and many many 200gr 40cals in mine and it was great with loads from 80-115gr of BH209. Recoil was pleasant and accuracy was better than i could shoot without a rest. On a sled it could stack them up for hours. The 1-28 in the Accura 45 did pretty much as well with some load adjustment but it preferred a slightly milder load on average. And now it's MINE  |
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Post by sabotloader on Mar 14, 2014 17:32:30 GMT -5
That's right you are now in the 45 world - wait till you shoot that. It is such a pleasant experience. It is really easy just to shoot all day with very little concerns...
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gregk
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Posts: 159
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Post by gregk on Mar 14, 2014 20:34:51 GMT -5
That's right you are now in the 45 world - wait till you shoot that. It is such a pleasant experience. It is really easy just to shoot all day with very little concerns... Mike.....I am looking forward to getting it to the range. I'm trying to figure out what kind of scope I want on it & which bullets I want to shoot. I've got some SST 200's & I'll try the Barnes 195's, but I also have interest in some Bloodline 200's, Nosler 200's & then some sabotless loads including the 250 grain Bloodlines. In any case, I'm gonna have some fun |
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Post by muznut on Mar 15, 2014 14:34:15 GMT -5
Some guys claim the 1:28 and 1:30 twist barrels don't shoot 300gr bullets well? Maybe its just their guns because my Knight disk ex 45cal and my bergara optima elite 45cal stacks them shooting sabotless.
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Post by sabotloader on Mar 16, 2014 20:51:25 GMT -5
That's right you are now in the 45 world - wait till you shoot that. It is such a pleasant experience. It is really easy just to shoot all day with very little concerns... Mike.....I am looking forward to getting it to the range. I'm trying to figure out what kind of scope I want on it & which bullets I want to shoot. I've got some SST 200's & I'll try the Barnes 195's, but I also have interest in some Bloodline 200's, Nosler 200's & then some sabotless loads including the 250 grain Bloodlines. In any case, I'm gonna have some fun Not sure what you might be looking for in a scope, but I bought a Redfield Revenge 3x9x42 with a Accu-Ranger Reticule. I have had it for a year now and one really rotten hunting season and it really is a good scope IMO The reticule offers a long range finder ability and shooting points.   Here is some information redfield.com/redfield-revenge/ |
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Post by sabotloader on Mar 16, 2014 21:02:22 GMT -5
Some guys claim the 1:28 and 1:30 twist barrels don't shoot 300gr bullets well? Maybe its just their guns because my Knight disk ex 45cal and my bergara optima elite 45cal stacks them shooting sabotless. The real problem with the 1-30/1-28 twist 45's only shows up when you are shooting very long bullets. Shooting really heavy lead conicals is not a problem because of the lead they remain somewhat short, same for lead/copper bullets. So shooting a normal 300 grain bullet should not be a real problem. It is when you start shooting solid copper or brass bullets as in my case. |
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gregk
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Posts: 159
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Post by gregk on Mar 16, 2014 22:12:06 GMT -5
Ii like the Redfields. I've got 2 revolution 2-7 with the Accurange reticle & I played with a Revenge just like the one you posted pics of. I was actually quite impressed with everything about it & even though I don't do a lot of long range shooting, their bracketing system seemed well thought out & designed. I can buy them at Dunhams here, but two of the three stores are out & I have a 20% off coupon!
I was also knurling some bullets for the 45 today. The Barnes T-EZ 250 just take a light knurl to fit snug. Know I just have to see how it shoots. They drop down the barrel smoothly but with contact all the way down without knurling. I also tried a Speer 452/260, 452 FTX 225, Partition HG 45/300, Win 45/260 Platinum tips.....all would not even drop or push easily down the barrel, kind of surprising me that the Barnes did fit.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 17, 2014 11:07:27 GMT -5
IIRC that barrel was super close to .451 and under .4515. Barnes are often smaller in OD. I highly doubt you will get a unknurled .4515 down a .451 bore without a LOT of effort. Knurled to oversized should not be a problem. Nosler Partitions usually dont even work well sabotless in a SML. This would be a good place to check the twist against bullet weight/length. You can even adjust for bullet material. kwk.us/twist.html and this one www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgiIMO i would try some .451 230gr 45ACP bullets and some resized 225gr FTXs. Get those shooting first and then step upto a 250gr. IMO you will find a 300gr to be challenging. A thin jacket with a soft lead core will help. Something like a Parker 300gr BE, preferably the older ones. |
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gregk
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Post by gregk on Mar 18, 2014 7:28:02 GMT -5
IIRC that barrel was super close to .451 and under .4515. Barnes are often smaller in OD. I highly doubt you will get a unknurled .4515 down a .451 bore without a LOT of effort. Knurled to oversized should not be a problem. Nosler Partitions usually dont even work well sabotless in a SML. This would be a good place to check the twist against bullet weight/length. You can even adjust for bullet material. kwk.us/twist.html and this one www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgiIMO i would try some .451 230gr 45ACP bullets and some resized 225gr FTXs. Get those shooting first and then step upto a 250gr. IMO you will find a 300gr to be challenging. A thin jacket with a soft lead core will help. Something like a Parker 300gr BE, preferably the older ones. Thanks. Good info there!! I love to play & that includes sabotless. I will try the Barnes but am concerned due to the length. I don't have a press (which I believe is needed for resisizing?) I like the 225 FTX & I love the Barnes. I was able to get decent groups with the Partition in my V2 45 (about 2 1/2" at 100) The soft jacket of the PT Gold 240 & 260 were my best & most consistent sabotless bullets by far & I will see if they fit. When all is said & done, I may end up shooting a saboted load, but I WILL have fun making that decision I was going to put a used scope (from a very trusted friend) on it but with my coupon for Dunham's I picked up a new Redfield Revolution 3-9x40 Accurange for 169 bucks. I just couldn't say no. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 18, 2014 10:59:32 GMT -5
Barnes offers a .451 XPB in 225gr and 200gr for 45LC. I use the 225gr in my NULA sometimes. They shoot just fine and expand violently. I shoot the 225gr FTX also for fun. IMO its a great cheaper bullet but ive never tried one for deer. I believe Carlos or 45Omega used them for hunting. I just like the way they vaporize a water jug with reasonable recoil.
IIRC Bob Parker suggested the 250gr BE for sabotless in the 1-30 and 1-28 twist 45cals. Im pretty sure the core is softer than a PT Gold. IIRC its pure lead like Nosler's Sporting HGs line. The older BE version appeared to be a softer jacket alloy than the current version. The older BE was also .4505 (mine are) and i think the newer one is .451.
You wont have any issues with a 200gr SST in a sabot though. They shoot just fine and perform fine on deer on even less than an ideal angle. The 195gr Barnes performs even better but didn't group quite as good for me. The difference was very minor with a little more BH209.
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gregk
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Post by gregk on Mar 18, 2014 18:09:58 GMT -5
I had a very nice 100 yard 3 shot group today using 110 BH209 & Harvester EZ load smooth sabots. About 2 inch with the tan sabots. I like the Xpb & have shot them in 44, 45, & 50 cal. A very devastating bullet indeed! I really like that 3-9 Revolution on that rifle! What a sweet combo |
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gregk
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Posts: 159
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Post by gregk on Mar 20, 2014 6:51:45 GMT -5
I had a very nice 100 yard 3 shot group today using 110 BH209 & Harvester EZ load smooth sabots. About 2 inch with the tan sabots. I like the Xpb & have shot them in 44, 45, & 50 cal. A very devastating bullet indeed! I really like that 3-9 Revolution on that rifle! What a sweet combo Went back & tightened it up to a 1 inch group with the only change being the Harvester EZ load smooth blue sabot.  |
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