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Post by deermangler on Mar 5, 2014 20:54:57 GMT -5
From illinois and I'm new to this site, I was pointed in this direction by couple of other members on here. I'm an outdoorsman with a passion for deer and coyotes. I joined in search of getting the answers I need to put together a smokeless muzzleloader. So any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 21:14:44 GMT -5
Welcome this is a great place lots of good people here! How deep are your pockets? Lol jk however this is very addicting and you probably won't settle on one rifle. Good luck
RR
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Post by 10ga on Mar 5, 2014 21:17:04 GMT -5
Welcome mangler, This is a good place to be to get the straight stuff. Lots of high end SML and beginners too. Suggest you lurk about, scan through the pages and pages of topics and topics. You ask some questions and you'll learn a lot. The search feature is your friend. If you want a particular opinion or information just ask. Just remember that there is no flaming or name calling here. As just a guy that has built a couple of SML and likes the sport I've been banned from some boards.
Pointers... Decide which type of rifle platform suits your hunting style. There is a world of difference in a rifle for beanfield/stand/ hunt house shooting and one for spot n stalk/ calling n rattling/ sneak and creep n still hunting. Build a SML from the platform that suits your needs best. IE: break action like Encore or H&R, bolt gun like a Remmy 700ml rebuild or Savage MLII or centerfire conversion, Inline or dropblock like a Ruger #1 or Winny low or high wall etc... That is the place to start your efforts.
Again welcome. 10 ga
We were all beginners at SML once and you will be treated well.
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Post by deermangler on Mar 5, 2014 21:30:37 GMT -5
Wow this is great! I feel so welcome, and that makes me eager to learn. Thanks 10ga for the list of thing to consider for my first smokeless. I never really put that much thought into every scenario. I thought you picked out option a,b, or c then tossed down a wad of cash and said thank you. Well I'm off to do my research....
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Post by 03mossy on Mar 5, 2014 22:12:43 GMT -5
Deermangler- don't let these guys fool you with there warm welcomes and helpful posts! There nothing but a bunch of enablers, showing pics of all these amazing rigs and the targets they produce. I was in your shoes awhile back now I'm sitting here with a almost drained fun money account and nothing to show for it except a muzzleloader that can touch holes at 200 yards and a shared addiction with these guys for more. Grab your wallet and run!
Welcome, your in for a fun ride!
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Post by deermangler on Mar 5, 2014 22:18:14 GMT -5
Ha. Thanks for the heads up 03mossy. You want to sell me your rig and save me the trouble. Lol
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Post by 03mossy on Mar 5, 2014 22:38:49 GMT -5
Ha. Thanks for the heads up 03mossy. You want to sell me your rig and save me the trouble. Lol No way man that thing is now my pride n joy of my stable! Plus half the fun is customizing your build the way YOU want it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 22:43:16 GMT -5
Ha. Thanks for the heads up 03mossy. You want to sell me your rig and save me the trouble. Lol No way man that thing is now my pride n joy of my stable! Plus half the fun is customizing your build the way YOU want it. +1 on the custom way you want it. Then it's your baby
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Post by deermangler on Mar 5, 2014 22:48:48 GMT -5
03mossy what style did you go with? Bolt or break action. I'm lean towards break action. Mostly cause I have pro hunters and used to the that style. But I'm having a hard time finding barrels for pro hunters, so that leaves me open to anything at this point. I'm looking at cva elite stalker in 45-70 to get started, cause I can find those. Plus I want to start kinda cheap just to see if I like this smokeless stuff. Before I go head first into big dollar remington 700 action and krieger barrel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 23:06:46 GMT -5
It depends on your hunting style like 10ga said. If you are hunting from a box then Remington or savage is way to go. If you do allot of walking then break action like the CVA stalker would work. Quite honestly I think you can get a long range and easy carrying rifle out of the CVA apex along with an adjustable trigger. I just finished another build which was my first bolt action build. I love the gun it's a McRem however I am still wondering if the Apex still could have shot accurately out to 500 yards like I want. Their are allot of guys who have the apex and love them.
Good luck
RR
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 23:25:27 GMT -5
03mossy what style did you go with? Bolt or break action. I'm lean towards break action. Mostly cause I have pro hunters and used to the that style. But I'm having a hard time finding barrels for pro hunters, so that leaves me open to anything at this point. I'm looking at cva elite stalker in 45-70 to get started, cause I can find those. Plus I want to start kinda cheap just to see if I like this smokeless stuff. Before I go head first into big dollar remington 700 action and krieger barrel. There are some 45/70 encore blue Bull barrels available from a couple of sources that could be easily converted to smokeless and cheap....you can be shooting smokeless in less than 3 weeks or less depending on the mail service......One of the best features of sml is NO cleaning between shots or all hunting season if you want....Welcome to Doug's......
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Post by deermangler on Mar 5, 2014 23:37:24 GMT -5
Sml could you give me a source or two to look into. I'm having troubles finding pro hunter barrels. All I can find is the 20" barrels
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Post by 03mossy on Mar 6, 2014 11:43:51 GMT -5
03mossy what style did you go with? Bolt or break action. I'm lean towards break action. Mostly cause I have pro hunters and used to the that style. But I'm having a hard time finding barrels for pro hunters, so that leaves me open to anything at this point. I'm looking at cva elite stalker in 45-70 to get started, cause I can find those. Plus I want to start kinda cheap just to see if I like this smokeless stuff. Before I go head first into big dollar remington 700 action and krieger barrel. I went the bolt action route. My other firearms related hobby besides muzzleloaders is tinkering with Savage rifles, so it was just fitting that I use a Stevens (Savage) action for my build. Here is my build. dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/13494/mcstevens-45
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Post by Boonechaser on Mar 6, 2014 12:18:07 GMT -5
Sml could you give me a source or two to look into. I'm having troubles finding pro hunter barrels. All I can find is the 20" barrels Glad to see you joined!! over on hausofarms.com you can pick up a blued full bull 24" Bergera barrel in 45-70 for $225 shipped. Then all you need is a savage plug and $100 to Slufoot and you are shooting. The bergera will work on your prohunter frame and the blued barrel and stainless frame actually look pretty good together. Just one option. I used just a standard taper 45-70 barrel and had Slufoot convert and they work fine. You can find one occasionally for around $300 for a stainless. Here is mine with the standard barrel. Actually think there is one on encoreclassifieds and 24hourcampfire, right now. dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/14883/finally-finishing-first-smokless-encore
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Post by deermangler on Mar 6, 2014 16:51:59 GMT -5
Wow !! Thanks everyone so far for all the great info. I'm ordering that barrel tonight! Love the pics of your builds, very inspiring. I'm sure I'm jumping head first into a new addiction. Maybe you guys can help me find a new house after my wife kicks me out our house. This is going to drive her nuts. Lol. Just kidding.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 22:06:24 GMT -5
Well I'm glad Boone chaser hooked you up and your already ORDERING something...your done Already.....Now find some powder ,in a lot of areas its hard to locate and if you have to have it shipped you get charged a $25 or more hazmat FEE,primers fed209a are what I have ,CCI mag is another preferred choice also. Light blue harvester sabots,195gr barnes for saboted, AND 275 parker Match hunters for sabotless .."sizing die might be needed" ....THen you have to get a collapsible ramrod with a spinjag,and spinjag equipped bullet starter, powder scales, vials for powder, high dollar scope, trigger job , belm hinge upgrade, chronograph, get a place to shoot LONG ranges...Spotting scope,targets,etc.....There are so many different loads and combos that you can try 60 gn h4198 is a great saboted load in warmer temps but once you get in 20 degrees and less , a duplex is needed to keep POI consistent and a trued booster is imr 4759 which has been discontinued but seem to be on shelves right now...If you can find it buy as much as you can because it is a good single also for your next build......your gonna have to expand your house for all of the new SML builds ....
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Post by deermangler on Mar 7, 2014 0:11:39 GMT -5
As far as powder scales what's a good one to get? And what's the best way to store the premeasured powder for a day at the range?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 0:27:55 GMT -5
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Post by Boonechaser on Mar 7, 2014 13:45:11 GMT -5
I bought a Gempro 250 for a electronic scale and have been pretty happy but do not think you need to spend a lot on a scale. Spent brass seems to be a good choice, if you have some laying around. I have heard a lot of people use 7mm for main charge and .223 for a booster. I have always used Lane's tubes. I would recommend wiping with a dryer sheet to cut down on static (causing powder to stick) www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t395-lane-s-powder-tubesI will shoot you a PM on a good online source of powder, If you can not find locally.
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Post by deermangler on Mar 7, 2014 23:07:09 GMT -5
Ok new crisis. I never ordered the barrel yet. I can't make up my mind. I'm looking at 24" blued bergara full contour also looking at a tc weathershield pr hunter 24". About $75 difference in price. What's a better choice.
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Post by Boonechaser on Mar 8, 2014 6:54:43 GMT -5
I think it is more personal preference and both will work well. So your decision should be fore arms you have available to fit either without buying a new one, color choice (blued/weathersheild) and whether you want a full bull or heavy taper barrel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 8:54:17 GMT -5
Since a SS would be ideal,the weather shield is the next best thing, So go with it....
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Post by Boonechaser on Mar 8, 2014 9:41:40 GMT -5
Why would stainless steel be ideal? If you maintain and clean your guns, as you should. I see no great advantage to either especially using smokeless charges vs BP.
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Post by deermangler on Mar 8, 2014 14:10:56 GMT -5
I guess finish isn't the main thing in looking at, it's more quality. I've read tons of reviews and posts about pros and cons to each. I hear tc quality has gone way down hill since smith and Wesson took over. But that could be all stories. Bergara barrel don't always fit. I'm at a draw. I think I'll flip a coin.
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Post by Boonechaser on Mar 8, 2014 14:21:53 GMT -5
I guess finish isn't the main thing in looking at, it's more quality. I've read tons of reviews and posts about pros and cons to each. I hear tc quality has gone way down hill since smith and Wesson took over. But that could be all stories. Bergara barrel don't always fit. I'm at a draw. I think I'll flip a coin. Not funny but, that is probably just as good a way as the next! I have not heard about problem with the Bergera not fitting but know they have great quality. As another option, I was on Edstc.com and he has a few listed. Wouldn't hurt to call him to check stock and prices, if you want a original barrel. I found a 24" heavy taper matte for $225 and a 26" high gloss full bull for $200 on "hot new items", if it is updated. www.edstc.com/hot.html
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 14:48:18 GMT -5
I don't have a tc but an Optima Elite 45/70 Slufoot Conversion. It has a berraga barrel and it will shoot accurately out to 300 shooting 250 SST sabotless. If you keep the pressure around 40 to 45k it will be fine. I've read others pushing hotter but no need to. Here is the rifle Here is a group at 100 yards. Don't be afraid to get a berraga they will shoot and Slufoots conversion time is with in a week. You won't be able to get anything faster promise!
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Post by deermangler on Mar 8, 2014 15:20:41 GMT -5
Ok. I'm going to man up an get the bergara. Can't beat the prices of them. I've got to start someplace and by the sounds of it I'll have to build more guns just to keep up with everyone else in these forums.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 22:02:01 GMT -5
Why would stainless steel be ideal? If you maintain and clean your guns, as you should. I see no great advantage to either especially using smokeless charges vs BP. I assumed he had a SS frame ....no argument about which is better....like I mentioned earlier ,I am all for the bull bergeraBlue barrel ,If I had an encore I would buy it...
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Post by deermangler on Mar 9, 2014 19:18:18 GMT -5
Just ordered my plug!! Booyaah!! Ball is starting to roll. Tomorrow I man up and order a barrel. Then off to slufoot and hope to have the snow gone and nice weather when I get it back so I can let it rip. Now I'm looking into buying optics. I'm a diehard leupold man. What's the expected bullet drop with a 100 yard zero shooting 195 barns? I know it depends on recipe
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 19:31:32 GMT -5
2500 fps it's about 6" the Barnes doesn't have a very good bc
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