Why shoot such a heavy bullet?

[deadeye]

tp,within a given caliber like say a300rum run average ballistics with say a180gn @ their average speeds & run a 150 or even a 125 gn bullet @ their avg speeds,you will find the heavier bullet will pass the lighter ones approx 175-200yds within a given caliber. archery same way- right now im training from 75yds -90yds averaging 4" groups in archery & you are probably right about your pins @ close ranges,go out to 60yds or more ,the heavier arrows will be flatter within reason providing we are not talking about a 20lb arrow doing 10fps.

[yankee]

i like the skeet throwing comparison but as an avid competetive skeet shooter i know #1 you would never get the same velocity at launch, so let me see if i get this straight, same velocity at launch right?? and what has better trajectory down range and is flatter shooting.. as a prior military man and a desert storm vet i don't seem to recall 5.56 sniper rifles, the M4 is a .308 and then you have the .50 cals, both heavier bullets by far, and if i recall correctly th 5.56 had em both beat in the fps category inside 300yds, but that light slug simply does not carry downrange well enough to even consider taking a 800yd shot , i think your splitting hairs here, i have shot several weights out to 200yds in my muzzleloader, and i settled with the hornady 300gr xtp, i didn't just choose the xtp, shoot what you will your free to choose, but instead of relying on computers and programs, get out and shoot it, i only stated 110gr triple se7en cuz thats what i shoot..

[tpcollins]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm probably going to limit my range to 150 yards as I don't think I can effectively shoot 250-300 yards in the field with my muzzleloader. I may try some 200 yard shooting if I ever go muzzleloader hunting in Iowa with my step-son.

I'm heading up north turkey hunting Sunday morning. I hunt with a single barrel 10ga - I hope it's big enough.

[yankee]

using your theory and comparing apples to apples as you put it, i hand loaded 5 12ga shells with #9 shot and 5 12ga shells with BB loads, propped up a 4x8 sheet of plywood on it end, lasered off 100yds and shot all 5 #9 shot loads, now i painted 5 10" circles on the paper stapled to this board at equal intervals starting at 1'6' from bottom edge, top circle was at 9.5 ft..working up i shot 5 9 shot loads, i walked to the target no eveidence of a hit, loaded the BB loads and fired at all 5 circles again, had approx 65-70 pellets leave a mark on the paper, now thats all things being equal, same powder same wad same primer same shell same gun same choke same target, same lasered 100yds, the 9 shot never made it, is to light to carry and loses velocity very quickly

[tpcollins]

....and the dish ran away with the spoon.

Sorry you went to all that trouble just for me. Could you redo that test and see how they shoot at just 40 yards? (That's alot of BB's at 100 yards - you must be a Navy Seal Sharpshooter or have a special gun to do that). I don't shoot turkeys at 100 yards nor deer at 300 yards with a muzzleloader.

[surveyor]

Being Ya'll are thinking 300 grains is a big bullet, I'm chunking 460 grain conicals out of my White .504. I did the sabot thing years ago. I have no problems with such. Just happen to bump in to White and have never looked back. Oh it's shoots a rain bow arc. But I don't find 18" low at 200 yards to be much of a problem for me. Being it'll put em in the bull time after time. I've got some 495 grain conicals I shoot in mail contest that do well also.

I like big and heavy. I've never lost a deer to a pure lead conical.

Oh Well. As long as the talk was heavy, I chimed in.

Did Ya'll ever look at the Taylor KO Factor?

Taylor KO Factor is a commonly used mathematical approach for evaluating the stopping power of hunting cartridges. The term "KO" is an acronym for "Knock Out." The Taylor KO Factor (TKOF) is a figure of merit that allows hunters to compare bullets with respect to stopping power. The TKOF was developed by John "Pondoro" Taylor, a famous mid-20th century hunter and poacher of African big game. The factor is computed using Equation 1.

\mathrm{TKOF}=\frac{m_{\mathrm{bullet}}\cdot v_{\mathrm{bullet}}\cdot d_{\mathrm{bullet}}}{7000} (Equation 1)

Where

* mBullet is the bullet mass in grains (1 pound = 7000 grains)
* vBullet is the bullet velocity in feet per second
* dBullet is the bullet diameter in inches

Taylor first described this measure of stopping power in his classic work "African Rifles and Cartridges" (Reference 1). In this work, Taylor did not actually state Equation 1. In fact, he stated in Reference 1 that "I do not think there is any necessity to go into the methods I employed to arrive at the formula I used, suffice it to say that the final figures agree in an altogether remarkable way with the actual performance of the rifles under practical hunting conditions." However, it is obvious from the text and his presentation that he used Equation 1.

Taylor referred to number generated by Equation 1 as the "Knock Out Value" or "Strike Energy." Common practice today is to refer to this value as the "Taylor KO factor" or simply "Taylor KO."

In Equation 1, the denominator value of 7000 is a scaling factor. It can be viewed one of two ways:

* as converting the units of bullet mass from grains to pounds.
* giving the TKOF a convenient numerical value from 0 to ~150 for normal hunting cartridges.

The TKOF has no physical meaning and is strictly used as a figure of merit for comparing cartridges.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_KO_Factor

[tpcollins]

[/quote] i'll bud in on this 1, im 1 of those 300gr xtp slug fans, heres an experiment for ya, grab a baseball and throw it as level and as hard as you can, then do the same with a tennisball, report back with the results, [/quote]

Yankee - I got to thinking about your statement but I think the baseball - tennisball comparison is at opposite ends of the spectrum. How about trying that experiment with a baseball (spec is 5.0 - 5.25 ozs) and a softball (spec is 6.8 ozs). Can you throw a softball further and faster than a baseball? Report back if you would.

[yankee]

wasn't any trouble at all, i load all kinds of shells, test was done right here on my range, and what hit the board for BB was approx total count of whats in 1 shell and i would not compare it to shooting turkeys, geez man, so your saying at same velocity that buckshot will not carry farther then say BB?? i can debunk that 1 too, if ya like, but anything beyond that will be a waste of my time

[yankee]

Apr 18, 2009 16:17:42 GMT -5 tpcollins said:

i'll bud in on this 1, im 1 of those 300gr xtp slug fans, heres an experiment for ya, grab a baseball and throw it as level and as hard as you can, then do the same with a tennisball, report back with the results, [/quote]

Yankee - I got to thinking about your statement but I think the baseball - tennisball comparison is at opposite ends of the spectrum. How about trying that experiment with a baseball (spec is 5.0 - 5.25 ozs) and a softball (spec is 6.8 ozs). Can you throw a softball further and faster than a baseball? Report back if you would.[/quote] now see your not comparing apples to apples, you see the softball is bigger in diameter, where as the baseball tennisball is a way closer to same diameter,and tennisball is lighter a 45 cal slug is the same diameter you just have different weight, i compared BB to 9shot cuz of the weight difference, and you stated well shoot it at 40yds, well of course it'll hit at 40yds, but it won't penetrate where as the BB will atleast stick in the wood now shall i do the BB vs BUCKSHOT?? i could even digitally record it and link you to my photobucket acct so you can view

[tpcollins]

Could you repeat that again but in English this time?

[wilmsmeyer]

TP,

In looking for the "flattest trajectory" out to 150 yds, it seems you can't make many poor choices. Some of the poorest shaped bullets at only moderate BP speeds will keep their shots inside 6-8 circle from 0-150 yds with the proper zero range (about 125yds)

Without going into ballistic programs that you seem to have no confidence in, I have done this for many years before getting into the Savage game. My knight would push a 300 gr XTP bullet at 1650 and be about 3 inches high at 100...zero at 125...and 3-4 inches low at 150. I killed my longest range buck (190 yds) with a backline hold.

So, you are in luck...EVERYTHING will work for what you want.

[tpcollins]

Thanks wilmsmeyer - actually this thread went the wrong direction that I had intended. I mearly wanted be a couple inches high at 100 and a couple low at 150.