new dd rem 700 cf plug

[dave d.]

hey guys I want to unveil the new plug that pete is making. I think it is a super design and should solve all the issues guys were having with high pressure sabotless loads. The plug know headspaces off the mouth of the case and also seems to be sealing on the sides too. Another kool feature is the ventliner placement. It can be in the pocket or where it normally Is in front of the plug or you could have 2 ;D(
which we are going to test for the heck of it). Ive tested the new plug saboted and dane has tested it sabotless ( pretty heavy loads) and the plug has worked great. Special thanks to edge,pat (fordwrench), dane and pete for all there help. Heres I few pics of the new plug:





Btw being a 1 piece plug it can have one of fishhawks bushings installed. I think we have come up with the ultimate plug for the cf conversion

[Deleted]

Cool! Keep us posted to the release date.

[moto357]

One of the best features of this plug is its simplicity. Much easier to headspace a case using the OUTSIDE dimensions rather than sorting through a bunch then measuring web thickness. I'll post more details in a few days when I get back to my computer (on phone now) with details and pictures/target info. Just to ease suspense though, I tried to get a couple of loads from TG's traces for a "known" pressure to give people a comparison as well as a couple of my own loads. Plug worked great so far. Have to thank these guys for never being satisfied and putting the time and effort into making something accessible for others with this conversion.

[voldoc02]

thanks to Dave, Pete, and all others associated with this new plug=
They helped me when I was wading through the murky waters of a new Centerfire
Rem 700 platfrom rilfe a few months ago=
I had to give up because of the flame cutting caused by blow back
leakage of the plug=
Using normally very good (uniform Norma brass, there was still enough
variations from case to case webb thickness
to make consistency impossible=
any and everything from misfires to erratic accuracy that couldn't be
duplicated from shot to shot=
This will change the centerfire platform from a wildcat status
to a stable build for Roockies like me=
thanks again=
wish I had another CF now=
never can have enough I'd say=

Doc

[dave d.]

josh release date will be soon and I'll let everybody know when there available. Doc anytime you need a hand just call buddy but I told you something new was coming ;D to hang in there but as long as you are happy thats all that matters. Btw the guy that you bought that gun from buggered up petes original plug and cases were way out of spec and thats why you had so many problems it was never the original designs fault. Dane thankyou look forward to pics and full report thanks. Heres a few groups I shot just to check the plug out. first three shots with 62grs of h4198 and 200xtp:

5 shots at 300yrds with same load but 195 barnes. First shot was low I didnt have my usual targets and wasnt lined up well and first time I shot at 300 in awhile but the next 4 I beared down and shot under moa.

[Jon]

Watching with interest.

[Dave W]

Great shooting Dave!

Do you have to resize the case or just punch the primer out?
Sounds like a much more user friendly set up! Very nice!

[dave d.]

dave just punch out the primers and reprime. This plug makes cf just as easy a conversion as the ml now imo(with the benifit of locking lugs and easy bolt removal). Plus if your running high pressure sabotless loads there is no issues like 209's. Nice set up.

[vtecgsr95]

So after I get my 209 Rem-Pac finished, this is now the next best thing?

[dave d.]

v theres nothing wrong with a 209 gun theres a ton of guys shooting them and soon you will be too. Have fun

[vtecgsr95]

So is this a simple upgrade for those of us who re already running 209 ignition???

BTW, props to everyone who continues to help us advance in this sport! If not for you guys, none of this would exist!

[dave d.]

v its only for centerfire action builds.

[mrbuck]

Great photos . Great shooting . Great report . And very interesting . Please keep us informed .
mrbuck

[vtecgsr95]

OK, so is there any one 700CF rifle in particular that is needed for a build like this? Any specific caliber? Or is this like the 700ML where you end up tossing everything but the action?

I got a line on a nice 700adl 30-06....

[dave d.]

:)any Remington 700 with a .473 bolt face will work. yes your 30-06 will work it will just be longer because its a long action.

[moto357]

OK guys, finally able to post up some pics and explain what went on. All shots are at 100yds. temp started out at 37 and when I packed up was 44.

All brass was once fired brass before I cut it down. These seemed to fit too tight in the plug but when run through a FL sizer they fit snug like I like. New-unfired brass seemed a little loose.

First I shot 10 shots of what has always been my go-to load of 80gr H322 and 300xtp with .030 veg wad. TG traced a load of 78gr H322 and 300xtp(21c) with approx. 46,000psi so mine should be around 47kpsi?
During this string I used brass that was sized to fit snug, then fired a few that were about .010" short to see if they would still seal. Those shorter pieces sealed just the same as the longer/tight fitting pieces. For the last shot I tried a new-unfired brass to see if the pressure would expand and cause it to seal. Turns out there wasn't enough pressure for ignition and not to mention the brass piece came out black. I seated the load again then fired, and for some reason this load timed much much slower than any other. As you will see in the picture its the only shot out of the group and even though it was slower it impacted higher?



After the 10 shot string I pulled the plug for inspection. For those shots I had the vent liner on the inside of the plug instead of the end like normally placed. The only issue I could see with the vent being on the inside is the head of the VL filling with primer crud/carbon. Part of this build up may have been all the primers I fired off when fitting all the brass prior to leaving the house? Replaced the plug with the vent liner this time in the normal place on the end of the plug and fired the next two groups.

Next, 55gr 4759 and 250xtp with .030 veg wad. For comparison TG traced this same load(73d) for approx 45kpsi. My 5 shot group had an avg of 2671fps and an ES of 29



Last 5 shot string on this vent was a load of 80gr H4198 using a 250xtp and .030 veg wad. This load seemed pretty impressive, but you make youre own judgements ;D Avg velocity for this group was a hair over 3000fps



Took the plug back out for another inspection, trying to keep a close eye on things even though the brass seemed fine. Replaced the vent with another new one and shot one last 5 shot group before I had to head out.

Last group was shot with 70gr RL7 and 300xtp with .030 veg wad. This load was another I borrowed from TG's trace data(22c) which had about 46.5kpsi. Nice over all group with an avg speed of 2599



Overall I really liked the simplicity of the plug. Once I figured out the length of the brass for my gun, it was easy to pump more out. I made 5 as I mentioned that were a few thousands shorter and if I mixed them with the others I'd never know the difference. Point being, the seal from the overall length doesn't seem as critical with this plug. I like having a little room for error. not sure if this would still be the case when shooting lower pressure loads? I'm going to try and run a few more loads this week and also I plan on leaving a vent in longer than normal to see what affects I will see. With the locking lugs I have no concerns reguarding any extra pressure in the brass, if anything I would think it would make it seal better.

Sorry for the long write up, wanted to be thorough with my experience. Any questions feel free to ask, any loads anyone wants me to run through this plug I will gladly assuming I have the powder available. Thanks again to Dave for getting this rolling as well as the other guys involved in this plug

[rangeball]

Those are some awesome targets. Great shooting

[dave d.]

:)dane great report thankyou. Keep us posted on your future findings. If i can get some time ill cut down some acps short and see if they will seal saboted.

[Deleted]

Great report Moto...now I need a cf action.....nothing money won't fix
,lol.......
Greenhorn

[moto357]

Thanks guys.

Dave, I was able to get my hands on some 45acp brass this week. I plan on getting another day of shooting in on Sunday. Let me know if there is anything you'd like me to try, I can also shoot some saboted loads if you dont get a chance to get some shooting in anytime soon?

Also found some barnes .451 275gr bullets I can send with some H4198 since thats a popular combo with many sabotless guys. I'm open to other load suggestions, otherwise I'll load some stuff up and try to get a "volume" of shots to see how the plug continues to do after the vent opens up

[dave d.]

dane I would love for you to try a acp just shy of bottoming out with 62grs of h4198 and a 195 bx with the vent on the inside. If it seals this plug will be the cats meow for sure. Also for sh#%ts and giggles a shot with your normal load with 2 vents. plus anything you want to shoot ;D. I really appreciate you testing this plug out I havent had time. Goodluck

[cowhunter]

What are the pros and cons of rifle primers?

[gar]

the cons would be there is priming and depriming steps and the pros are a hotter flame but less initial blast pressure. I believe that LRMs primers can handle more back pressure than a 209 primer.

[pistol]

When will this plug will be available to the general public?

[dave d.]

We are still testing so as soon as im satisfied I will give pete the go ahead. Dane is testing today so im keeping my fingers crossed. If I like what I hear I will be calling pete.

[rangeball]

How many shots can one expect from a brass primer carrier?

[dave d.]

Alot ;D.

[warrior]

As always you the man Dave D. I can't wait to build another one around this plug. Get ready for a call. Thanks again for all that you do.

[moto357]

Once again I need to start off with a big thank you to Dave for this whole thing.

Temp was a little warmer today, starting off around 60 and climbing into the 70s when I was finished. Had chrony issues so no velocity readings today... Started out using the same vent I left off with from last week, having only shot the 5 shots on it. This week I also wanted to use 45acp brass instead of the 308 brass. The 45acp brass is much thinner, so both Dave and myself felt they would expand and seal better inside the plug.

First load was 3 shots of 60gr H4198 with a 200sst and blue harvester. These being a "lower" pressure I also wanted to try to 45acp cases I cut about .010 short just to see if they would still seal adequately. They did. Here's the group and a picture of the fired brass and an unfired case next to it.



Next load was a 275gr Barnes and 78gr H4198 and .030 veg wad. First bullet I grabbed looked to have much less knurling on it, but I figured I'd try anyway. Sure enough it didn't fire and spit the bullet out the barrel. Dave agreed that at least we know there is enough primer ummph to push the bullet back out, so maybe this was a good piece of the testing? Anyways, the next 4 were inconsistant loading pressure, 2 loaded normal and 2 had to be hammered down. Not sure if this effected the group, but I was more concerened with a "common" load that makes some pressure than shooting tiny groups. Truth is, this is the only load I've shot with this plug that didn't group well so far ;D


Next load and all loads for the rest of the day were 72gr H4198 a 300xtp and .030 veg wad. Shot 5 at first and took a picture before I shot the last 5... but only becuase I liked the looks of the group, shots 2, 3 and 4 were tight! The second picture is the same target with 10 shots

The 10th shot was the one on top, maybe I should have stopped after 9!


Replaced the vent before shooting the last 5 of the same load. I need to go dig out the vent to measure it, but here's a pic so you get the idea how the gun was shooting despite the vent.


Last 5 shot group, same as the last but with the new vent.


Sorry for the long post again, but once again trying to give as much info as possible to eliminate any confusion. My conclusion after shooting the few times now is only better than before. Also my conclusion after using the 45acp brass is I like it better than the 308. I like the way they seal reguardless of length, in my testing it shows fit of length not to be too critical. Easy to get things to fit right and the seal is awesome.

[edge]

The 45 brass is much thinner so it should in theory seal better.
Which brings me to the next question, do you size the brass? It looks too short for sizing but just thought i'd ask.
I size my 45acp in a 30-06 die so that I headspace on the taper vs the face of the case.

Looks like a great design

edge.