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Post by mk111 on Feb 10, 2013 1:59:47 GMT -5
Hi I'm new here just today. I had my TC Encore 45-70 SS barrel threaded for a TC Encore chamber plug about 7 yrs ago. Is this conversion safe to use normal 45-70 smokeless load data using lead bullets? The rifle shoots great using Jim Shockley powder and have taken a nice buck with it. I was looking for a Savage 10ML-11 smokeless but if I can use smokeless in my TC Encore I would rather do that.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 10, 2013 8:07:14 GMT -5
Which breach plug and who did the conversion?
If it is a T/C breach plug the answer is probably, no you cant use smokeless. Smokeless 45/70 conversions normally use a SMI or Savage breach plug but there are a couple exceptions.
Did you mean soft lead bullets like full bore conicals or in sabots? Soft lead usually doesn't work well at smokeless speeds and i would not shoot conicals with smokeless powder.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 9:37:30 GMT -5
You want either a PA Pete or Ryan's Encore/Omega breech plug since your barrel was threaded for the Encore plug. Dave D should be able to get you in touch with Ryan. Plug comes as shown, just needs a vent liner.
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Post by 10ga on Feb 11, 2013 22:35:11 GMT -5
As per GMB54-120 and 45omega need more info on what kind of plug was installed, who did the smith work, and does it take a vent liner, etc... And you can probably step up to Blackhorn even if it's not suitable for SML. The Shockey powder is notoriously inconsistent with all the guys that I know to have tried it. If you arn't shooting smokeless or Blackhorn just as well shoot Swiss! 10 ga
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Post by epanzella on Feb 21, 2014 9:06:18 GMT -5
Why would some plugs be OK for smokeless and others not? Is it the steel, the design, or what?
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Post by Page Three on Sept 23, 2014 18:03:43 GMT -5
I use a regular TC encore BPlug with the thing that rhymes with jokeless. If you do, its at your own risk. I'm about 150 shots with NO problems.
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Post by hydrodog on Sept 23, 2014 18:27:00 GMT -5
I would advise against using a black powder breech plug for smokeless. Way too much pressure reaching the primer.Smokeless breech plugs have a orifice to keep the pressure away from the primer and your face.
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Post by rambler on Sept 23, 2014 18:44:37 GMT -5
I use a regular TC encore BPlug with the thing that rhymes with jokeless. If you do, its at your own risk. I'm about 150 shots with NO problems. Does the wife have a sizeable life insurance policy on you
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Post by muznut on Sept 24, 2014 7:31:19 GMT -5
I use a regular TC encore BPlug with the thing that rhymes with jokeless. If you do, its at your own risk. I'm about 150 shots with NO problems. I have done them same about a thousand times, When the flash hole wears out I install a savage vent liner. I admit I only do it on a center-fire action..
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Post by Page Three on Sept 24, 2014 12:14:07 GMT -5
I could go on and on, but it makes no difference. No life insurance policy needed, laws of physics are on my side. AND surprisingly, it works in the real world. No load I shoot goes above 40K psi, most being about 30K.
SNIP... please no smokeless loads in non smokeless firearms per forum policy...edge.
That said, for the people here who have done amazing things with there set-up, God bless them. I think it really bothers people that I didn't need to replace a barrel, bed the lug, size my bullets, duplex my loads, or believe in the magic of "Savage" firearms to have an accurate, easy shooting deer slayer. I do really appreciate the load information that comes from this forum.
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Post by rangeball on Sept 24, 2014 12:29:54 GMT -5
I think it really bothers people that I didn't need to replace a barrel, bed the lug, size my bullets, duplex my loads, or believe in the magic of "Savage" firearms to have an accurate, easy shooting deer slayer. I do really appreciate the load information that comes from this forum. I don't see it that way. What I see is people being concerned about safety in the event someone hears/reads a bit of info on what is ok and misapplies it with tragic results. For reasons like this the discussion of SML in non-SML guns is a no no here. For example, My buddy's dad bought a CVA accura and was having trouble lighting up BH209. The recommendation was made to open the flash hole to .035, so I secured the proper bit and proceeded to do so. I was shocked when the flash hole punched through with hardly any resistance. The flame channel was almost to the face of the plug, with very little metal between them. This bothered me, even with BH209, so I drilled and tapped the plug and installed a vent liner. Problem solved. Now if someone bought an accura, saw that others are using BPsub plugs with smokeless thinks why cant' I especially since it's a stainless plug and a CF bergara barrel (same steel, verified by bergara, CVA and independent testing), loaded up and pulled the trigger, the potential for a failure is high, in my opinion. In the end we all make our choices and take our chances, but please put the odds in your favor every chance you can.
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Post by 10ga on Sept 24, 2014 15:03:07 GMT -5
I could go on and on, but it makes no difference. No life insurance policy needed, laws of physics are on my side. AND surprisingly, it works in the real world. No load I shoot goes above 40K psi, most being about 30K. SNIP... please no smokeless loads in non smokeless firearms per forum policy...edge.
That said, for the people here who have done amazing things with there set-up, God bless them. I think it really bothers people that I didn't need to replace a barrel, bed the lug, size my bullets, duplex my loads, or believe in the magic of "Savage" firearms to have an accurate, easy shooting deer slayer. I do really appreciate the load information that comes from this forum. What you do or don't do, replace or not isn't really my concern. Other than I don't want to be next to you on the range when you double load, leave the ramrod in the barrel, shoot w/o safety glasses, etal... etc... I have been present on 3 different occasions when there was a catastrophic failure of a firearm. It's not something you want to have happen when you are present. It is always going to be FUBAB, and I will do anything possible to prevent it happening! No load I shoot goes above 40K psi, most being about 30K. "Murphy" may have something to say about that and he always gets paid in full. It is America and you can do what you want but please don't endanger others. JMHO 10 ga
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 24, 2014 21:48:50 GMT -5
Click on his profile. He mentioned it before under his old nickname (cmarfia) and got similar responses. Kinda make me wonder if thats part of why he changed names.
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Post by hydrodog on Sept 25, 2014 5:51:48 GMT -5
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Post by Page Three on Sept 25, 2014 9:59:51 GMT -5
Click on his profile. He mentioned it before under his old nickname (cmarfia) and got similar responses. Kinda make me wonder if thats part of why he changed names. Changed my user name because that's what I named my gun. Couldn't care less about the previous responses. I appreciate people error on the side of safety. Some get a little carried away. The only people that should be afraid to shoot with me are the ones that shoot >1" groups.
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Post by 10ga on Sept 28, 2014 21:43:19 GMT -5
[quote author=" Page Three" source="/post/160104/thread" timestamp="1411657191 Couldn't care less about the previous responses. I appreciate people error on the side of safety. Some get a little carried away. [/quote] This response is zactly why I don't want to be next to these kind of people at the range. Inconsiderate of others and their well being. 150 shots and no problem, that does not give any reassurance whatsoever. Please do not make these kind of dangerous posts on this board as it may mislead some to do dangerous things. Stay safe, 10 ga
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Post by dave d. on Sept 29, 2014 9:08:21 GMT -5
Please listen to this mans words: SNIP... please no smokeless loads in non smokeless firearms per forum policy...edge.
First warning thankyou
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Post by Page Three on Sept 29, 2014 17:33:34 GMT -5
Ok, since I'm super close to getting kicked off this board/forum, never use smokeless powder in any gun unless it's a savage. You'll die instantly if you try. It's only by the grace of God I'm still alive. I'm going back to bh209. Sorry for my honest reports. Won't do that again. Likely won't ever post anymore. Surprised hankins still does after the way some people have treated him. Hope you all have an amazingly safe and successful season.
You may use any rifle DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS, not just Savage!
edge.
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Post by dave d. on Sept 29, 2014 18:52:36 GMT -5
Rules are rules sorry you don't like them.
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Post by rambler on Sept 29, 2014 19:14:00 GMT -5
Ok, since I'm super close to getting kicked off this board/forum, never use smokeless powder in any gun unless it's a savage. You'll die instantly if you try. It's only by the grace of God I'm still alive. I'm going back to bh209. Sorry for my honest reports. Won't do that again. Likely won't ever post anymore. Surprised hankins still does after the way some people have treated him. Hope you all have an amazingly safe and successful season. Jeff Hankins would never use a smokeless product in any gun not specifically designed for it.
People on this message board are very careful about this sport and care about others who wish to engage in it. I'm not sorry I/we care about others who might do things that are potentially dangerous.
Please be safe and research before you pull that trigger.
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Post by pposey on Sept 30, 2014 12:46:58 GMT -5
There are rules for a reason, and there are safety standards for a reason, Darwin's theory of Natural Selection tends to take care of the those that do not pay heed to them.
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Post by 10ga on Oct 3, 2014 8:21:43 GMT -5
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Post by edge on Oct 3, 2014 9:04:09 GMT -5
We have seen that even with rifles designed for smokeless there can be a double load or a ramrod shot out. Fortunately it normally only results in a bulged barrel but sometimes much more. Those that intentionally choose to take the extra risk do so at their own peril, and we will not condone it or allow loads discussing it openly on this board. What people do in the privacy of PM's or their bedrooms are their own business edge.
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Post by cowhunter on Oct 3, 2014 12:34:18 GMT -5
A better alternative for anything that accepts an Encore plug is the $59.95 plug from Precision Rifle. It includes 10 adapters (I would buy an additional 20 if you intend to shoot more). The adapters hold large rifle primers and are made of stainless steel. I don't think the PR owner says anything about smokeless, but he believes the plug is stronger than the stock Encore plug and I believe it. It has a decent flame channel length and if other rifle primer setups are any indication there will never be a need to install a vent liner. I have only shot mine about 50 times but it ignites virtually any reasonable powder. A similar and better option would be to buy a Hankins plug with adapters. Then you can be sure it is smokeless quality, and you can ignite H4198 without significant loading pressure. Edge is right. A very experienced shooter might be able to discern which BP components are safe with smokeless powder, but as soon as you announce or accept that concept, inexperienced people will believe that anything they happen to own would probably work with smokeless. Smokeless is not for everyone. We just saw what smokeless powder can do to a custom Pacnor barrel with a very thick beginning contour. How would anyone feel if their buddy, on their suggestion or example, puts smokeless in an older CVA and then eventually double loads and loses a hand?
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Post by Page Three on Oct 4, 2014 7:04:27 GMT -5
A better alternative for anything that accepts an Encore plug is the $59.95 plug from Precision Rifle. It includes 10 adapters (I would buy an additional 20 if you intend to shoot more). The adapters hold large rifle primers and are made of stainless steel. I don't think the PR owner says anything about smokeless, but he believes the plug is stronger than the stock Encore plug and I believe it. It has a decent flame channel length and if other rifle primer setups are any indication there will never be a need to install a vent liner. I have only shot mine about 50 times but it ignites virtually any reasonable powder. A similar and better option would be to buy a Hankins plug with adapters. Then you can be sure it is smokeless quality, and you can ignite H4198 without significant loading pressure. Edge is right. A very experienced shooter might be able to discern which BP components are safe with smokeless powder, but as soon as you announce or accept that concept, inexperienced people will believe that anything they happen to own would probably work with smokeless. Smokeless is not for everyone. We just saw what smokeless powder can do to a custom Pacnor barrel with a very thick beginning contour. How would anyone feel if their buddy, on their suggestion or example, puts smokeless in an older CVA and then eventually double loads and loses a hand? To all the people giving me advice: Please stop. I'm DONE posting on this board. These comments are "beating a dead horse". BTW I use the above BP and it works fantastic(and yes they say it will handle up to 50gr sml powder), but I'm not suggesting that in any way you can use it(with sml powder) in a gun not designed for it. Please move on.
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Post by edge on Oct 4, 2014 7:19:03 GMT -5
Please stop. I'm DONE posting on this board. These comments are "beating a dead horse". BTW I use the above BP and it works fantastic(and yes they say it will handle up to 50gr sml powder), but I'm not suggesting that in any way you can use it(with sml powder) in a gun not designed for it. Please move on. OK, WHO is the "they"? If you are using a barrel designed for smokeless then it is fine. The BP for smokeless either needs to handle all of the load in the case of a BP platform, or it needs to be built on a centerfire action with a bolt that can contain the pressure anticipated by the load. edge
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Post by pposey on Oct 7, 2014 11:03:32 GMT -5
Man you just think this is beating a dead horse,,,,,, shoulda been around here a few years ago! The only reason folks here are beating your dead horse with 2x4s instead of burying it with shovels is that they are concerned for both your safety and the safety of others.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:58:52 GMT -5
Page Three move on yourself....Do you realize the more info. you put up here that the moderators don't delete, is more info that for someone to TRY out and get hurt with....Imo the whole thread should be deleted,because of its non friendly nature that we pride ourselves with here......
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Post by mk111 on Oct 11, 2014 5:44:19 GMT -5
FYI I took the advice to purchased a smokeless breach plug the 45-70 conversion and it shoots great. I even took a doe with it in 2013 during early doe only ML season. And I'll be taking it out tomorrow for another try on a doe for a friend who can't hunt due to health reasons.
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Post by squeeze on Oct 11, 2014 7:08:00 GMT -5
I have 2 Savage smokeless conversions (both sav-pac .45 & .416) That have never shot smokeless yet. Im in a non smokeless state. They shoot great with Blackhorn, seven, pyrodex and real black. Ive only shot them to 300. (my longest local range) and usually 100, But where I hunt, ive never shot over about 50 yards. Thick, flat bottomland. I keep saying one day ill try it at the range, But they do so d**n good with BH and its what I hunt with, I just keep it at normal settings. I buy BH 5 lbs at a clip.
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