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Post by wilmsmeyer on Sept 30, 2012 7:07:24 GMT -5
It was just announced that 14-15 yr olds will be allowed to gun hunt, either sex, for Oct 6-8th....which is the 1st weeked of our bow season.
I hope that this doesn't turn into something bad. Some concerns:
1) Dad's filling their kids tag (Yes I do believe this will happen at times)
2) Gun hunters hunting among bow hunters who are trying to be stealthy, while hunters with guns are poking around the woods, shooting gun, running around on wheelers
3) Spooking deer early
4) Potential organized deer drives
There is a huge contingent of deer hunters who don't bow hunt, The likelihood of these hunters doing things, like drives, with their kids to help get them shots and opportunities is probably high
It's a catch 22 for me. My wife's son is 14 and just took his course this year. He wants to go and I want to take him. Of course, we will be legit all the way. We will not go anywhere near our camps bow spots and actually will be heading to a friends 100 acre property 5 miles from the area we "normally" hunt. But we are lucky to have options that address my personal concerns. Most don't have those options and I think guys with their bow hunting strategies on public lands with not have a good kick-off to their season...
But what about other areas where the general hunters have to be in the woods with gun hunters during the 1st week of bow season?
If I could vote either way on this I would vote against it. Anyone else out there have an opinion? Or any similar types of "overlap" of any kind? Am I over thinking this?
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Post by Al on Sept 30, 2012 7:52:24 GMT -5
I think youth should be before any regular season and some will even have conflicts with that too.
Our youth and early doe season was last weekend, and bow opens tomorrow.
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Post by whyohe on Sept 30, 2012 8:48:57 GMT -5
we have that here also Wilms. ya there is no real way of policing the dads shooting for their kid but it does get them out there and kind of feel the excitement. we have a mentored youth hunt that over laps early season in line wich also over laps with archery. as to spooking the deer. i beleave it does to some extent but i think its mor of a problem on public land. i never had a problem with it but then my nephew and his dad did it by the rules. and his first deer was a REALLY nice buck. now hes hooked for life. so i guess you have to take the good with the bad.
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Post by Dave W on Sept 30, 2012 8:51:31 GMT -5
Ohio has theirs in mid November. The rut is usually over by then for the most part, some stragglers here and there but the "chasing" has run its course by then for the majority of does and bucks.
Gun season always comes in the week after Thanksgiving so youth season hits during a lull in the action. I like what Ohio did with their youth season. Gives us bowhunters over a month to tag a deer plus we get the rut action to ourselves. Youth season probably benefits the bowhunter also since it gets deer up and moving during the post rut lull. If it hit during the first week of bow season I probably would not be to thrilled about it.
Bowhunting is allowed but you must wear orange.
Driving seems to be the preferred way of gun hunting in the area I hunt so I can see that happening if you had enough people and that is how my oldest got his first deer.
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Post by ET on Sept 30, 2012 8:51:37 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
If the rules concerning the wearing of fluorescent orange for gun hunters but not for bow hunters exists in your neck of the woods and both are in the field at the same time then I see a potential hazard especially with new young hunters with no real field time experience. Unless there is a ruling of bow hunter wearing orange while traversing to stand and back to vehicle during such overlapping hunts.
Here bow hunting is not allowed during firearm season and vice versa.
Ed
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Sept 30, 2012 12:22:30 GMT -5
Great point ET...
Bowhunters are not required to wear orange....A young hunter either needs to have 200 sq inches of orange or an orange hat.
Great point!
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Post by whyohe on Sept 30, 2012 13:12:08 GMT -5
all are required to wear orange when ML over laps archery and youth gun over laps both. its a smart thing to wear!
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Post by ET on Oct 1, 2012 4:30:55 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
The ruling here for hunter orange is a minimum of 400sq. inches visible from all sides above the waist and orange head cover must also be worn during firearm season for deer, elk and moose. Open mesh and orange camouflage is not considered acceptable.
Where I see a weakness in our ruling is for duck and geese hunters not required to wear hunter orange even when say hiking and hunting woodland ponds. But yet the regs. specifically say hunter orange required when hunting woodcock during deer season with the use of firearms.
When I hunted such ponds and a short season for firearms for deer hunting was allowed in that area I stayed at home and gave the ponds a rest.
Though not required for rabbit hunting when there is no open firearm season for deer or large game I still employ the use of hunter orange. Actually most of the boys I hunt with have adopted the hunter orange policy for everything except archery. Quick recognition of another hunter’s location when the action starts is good to know to avoid someone getting tagged with pellets. Even though a few stray shotgun pellets doesn’t happen to break skin it sure hurts like heck for days.
When I first needed to wear glasses I hated them but now am glad I’m wearing some eye protection when hunting. It only takes one stray pellet to rob you of something precious in your life. I can also attest to the fact that shotgun pellets do ricochet especially on frozen wood and rocky or frozen ground.
Ed
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Post by tar12 on Oct 7, 2012 14:12:56 GMT -5
Our special youth season is 1 weekend prior to bow season. The way it should be.No over lapping.They cried long and loud over this. I do understand what all of the whining is about..PURE SELFISHNESS. At a time when new hunter numbers are at their lowest....at a time when we need to embrace the younger generation and introduce them to our great sport?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 8, 2012 3:58:20 GMT -5
This year they extended the bow season on the front end by about 2 weeks! I wish they would give the youths the 1st weekend in October ALL TO THEMSELVES. Overlapping is bordering stupid IMO.
So, we all have plenty of time to hunt with the bow. I have my reasons for not liking the overlap....and coupled with the good point by ET on safety...
Sidenote: We went Saturday morning. Saw 1 doe with her yearlings come in for a shot. When it was about time to shoot one of the fawns went over to the does and started licking, licking licking mom's face. That did it...."I think I wan't to wait for a buck" OK we waited. Saw one at 240 yds and decided to far for a steady shot from the tree. Good time overall.
I still am against the overlap...
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Post by hornet22savage on Oct 13, 2012 12:07:03 GMT -5
Well the NY DEC is declairing this years youth hunt a success, there were zero shooting relate accidents which is always good. The total take numbers are still filtering in but i have a feeling this is going to stay. I my area of NY I did not hear any shots all weekend and a guy I work with said he heard three late saturday. I personally feel that NY bowhunters a spoiled and always get their way, we have been fighting for an early Muzzleloader season now for close to five years and everytime the bow hunters whine and cry and it gets shot down. However they get 47 days a field this year, compared to the regular season which is 23 days and the late season is 9 days. I feel it is really unfair to lenghten one season by two weeks and not consider the other ones at all.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 14, 2012 5:07:04 GMT -5
Yes, we are spoiled, I agree. Almost too much time to hunt.
We can agree to disagree about an early ML hunt. I hope it never happens. If it ever comes to be, I would prefer it be the week before regular season and be doe only.
Everyone knows that bow hunting is more effective when the deer herd hasn't been shot at by the masses out there that will use this opportunity.
Bow hunting before regular season is common in many states for the reason above. If you enjoy bow season as much as most archers do, having a lot of hunters in the woods before or during archery deters from the season. It's challenging enough to hunt deer that are not yet educated to what's happening.
And lets face it...What's the difference between a modern ML and a 30-30 these days anyway? Not like we are using round balls, black powder, flint and frissen pans anymore. A few shots and that's it. Might as well have an early rifle season at that point....because that's what these modern ML's are...high powered, accurate rifles. I have a few so I know.
I am all for the youths getting their shot early. We do it with turkeys and waterfowl. Just do it before bow season starts.
Like I said, and you said, 47 days is WAY more than enough...even too much for bow season.
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Oct 14, 2012 9:48:44 GMT -5
I would like to see a real late ML Season that starts the day after Christmas and goes into early January similar to Iowa with a two week break after the regular season. The early season does not matter to me one way or the other.
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Post by hornet22savage on Oct 14, 2012 20:40:39 GMT -5
That would be nice although we have not had a real winter in quite a while at least in my area. Most opening days end in a light jacket and jeans. I would also be quite happy with an early season that started the week before regular and would not even mind if it wasa the way in used to be primitive. No optics, no inlines.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 17, 2012 4:35:24 GMT -5
That means I would have to buy another gun!!
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Post by hornet22savage on Oct 17, 2012 6:59:20 GMT -5
Is that a bad thing everybody could use at least one more.
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Post by iowamuzzleloader on Oct 28, 2012 12:25:44 GMT -5
I have been a youth season dad for 5 years now with two kids. Our youth get about 2 weeks before any other seasons. Of course school is going on too so not a great amount of time but about right I say. Not sure if overlapping is a big deal. We dont have very many youth out there. I didnt hear a single other shot during youth season this year.
As for Dads doing the hunting? Go ahead but remember you have your little witness along with you. Must have kid with you and only one weapon for him or her.
The current world record was hunted by the whole Lovstuen family and they chose to put Tony in the shooters seat with a youth tag to head off the competition.
My daughter has a 150" and a 167". My son has a 179". I hunted them all. My kids pulled the trigger. Thats all that is required. The kids do the shooting. I feel no less the hunter on those bucks just because I didnt pull the trigger. My name wont go on the score sheets. But thats perfectly fine with me. I take my kids to create memories and have a great experience. Extrodinary bucks are just a bonus.
So if your NY dads think the same way as me, hopefully they wont grab the gun from the kids. Shameful if that happens. But at the same time, the dads get the credit for being the hunters and putting their kids on the deer. They cant do it without us. I prefer my kids take the shot if it is within their capability.
My daughters 167 was actually during our late ML season. I had my Savage in hand. 300 yard ML, proven. She had my Remmington. When I first saw the deer I wanted us both to pass. I didnt realize the mass. By the time I changed my mind he was out of range for my daughter. She has never fired a shot at 140 yards and I didnt want her to practice on what I now realized was a way better deer than I first thought. I had my Savage ML right next to me. I've never missed one inside 200 yards with it. But I wanted my daughter to shoot that buck. I gambled that he may not come back closer for her. Well within my range all the while. But I left my gun in the corner.
That buck did come back to 80 yards and Lizzy made a perfect double lung shot. Way more satisfying to me than shooting it myself. Even though at that moment, that buck was bigger than anything I had shot myself, I was still happy she did the shooting.
Ok, long enough. But keep some faith that the NY dads will do the right thing. Quite frankly, if they would use that seaason to hunt themselves, they are probably out with a spotlight and center fire everynight anyway. I doubt a 3 day youth season will really make a difference for them.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Oct 28, 2012 12:39:30 GMT -5
Your last paragraph.....says it all. You are 100% right about that class off hunter. They will do illegal stuff anyway. I agree.
I also agree with your entire post except the overlap. In my area, I do not have the safety worries. However, NYS is diverse in it's hunting areas. There are SO MANY acres of state land that the less fortunate hunters invade. Bow hunters and gun hunters. Having guys in trees in camo, and having kids out there with their dads and rifles seems to be potentially dangerous.
ABSOLUTELY let the kids have a first whack. 99% of the time it will be the right thing for the right reason. But give them a weekend or 2 for themselves. YES, stupid stuff will happen, but it happens anyway during any season....just like you said
I liked your post..and agree with it
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Post by iowamuzzleloader on Oct 28, 2012 18:14:39 GMT -5
Yeah I sometimes forget and cant really vision your states population and getting scrunched into tight spots. NY has city blocks with our states population. Hope it goes well out there.
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Post by kralik4jr on Nov 15, 2012 18:06:35 GMT -5
I think the youth season Iowa is great. If the kids don't fill their tags youth season, they are valid for all other gun seasons thru Jan 10th. DNR did something good there. Gives them plenty of chances.
As for dad's shooting, the guys that are doing that are the ones doing other things that cause good hunters grief. Just nothing you can do about it and try to hope for the best in people.
I am glad they did it here.
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Post by rossman40 on Nov 16, 2012 12:33:37 GMT -5
It gives the kids a good chance for a memorable hunt so that they enjoy it and want to do it again. If you went out your first time and didn't see anything and froze your kuhnas off the chances of you wanting to do it again would be slim.
This weekend is the Ohio youth hunt and it gains popularity every year. And like the other states the bowhunters whine about it because it is cutting into their prime time. This year the bowhunters get Sept. 29 through Feb. 3 with the week of gun season the week after Thanksgiving and the rut. The DNR wants to have a statewide early ML season next year like the second or third week in Oct and the bowhunters are all upset over it.
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Post by iowamuzzleloader on Nov 19, 2012 0:39:36 GMT -5
I think the youth season Iowa is great. If the kids don't fill their tags youth season, they are valid for all other gun seasons thru Jan 10th. DNR did something good there. Gives them plenty of chances. As for dad's shooting, the guys that are doing that are the ones doing other things that cause good hunters grief. Just nothing you can do about it and try to hope for the best in people. I am glad they did it here. Amen brother. My daughter shot a 167 with a youth tag during our late ML season. I was a hunter at that time too. I had all the time in the world to shoot that deer at 140 yards. I would not. I wanted my daughter to shoot that deer even though it may have never come back in range. We watched it for about 20 minutes well within my range. Maybe within hers too but we had not proven it. I think I was blessed for not shooting it hence it came back to about 80 yards so I could watch my daughter do it. Again, we Dads (and probably some Moms) still get the satisfaction and really the credit for being the hunter. They cant do it without us! Mike |
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Post by iowamuzzleloader on Nov 19, 2012 0:49:03 GMT -5
And BTW, not only is Iowa youth season great, they all are! Wether your states youth season is as good as Iowa or better or whatever, the big thing here is lets all of us Dads or Moms get our kids hunting and pass on the tradition that we all love here. My kids love hunting. They love shooting. It is normal for them. We need to raise our kids knowing that hunting and shooting sports are as natural as riding a bike. My kids were raised on venison and turned down their first opportunity at a pork chop. They were used to it and it was normal to them to have deer steaks or ground venison in their chili. They understand now that not everyone is like minded. But they still like their venison!
Mike
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Post by hornet22savage on Dec 8, 2012 9:39:20 GMT -5
I started out hunting with my dad around 12 or 12 years old. I would just tag a long, watch and learn. He recokonized right away that I can't sit too long in one spot and started teaching me the finer points of stalking.
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