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Post by ET on Sept 15, 2012 7:53:37 GMT -5
Recently I’ve had a good discussion with another denomination about this question. My current stance is that they don’t exist today because of what Christ’s sacrifice did for our relationship with God. Yes we still have Disciples and Leaders conveying God’s Word and teachings. I would enjoy hearing comments from others on this question.
Ed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2012 22:23:13 GMT -5
I feel that there are prophets among us and the reason I believe this is because God revealed this to me. Malachi 3:6 "I am God and I do not change!" He revealed this to me when I was going threw a divorce and was really questioning his purpose in all this. It is a long story and I might explain it later. So when I read the Bible I try to think of what it was like when Jesus walked the earth. Then I try to remind myself that it is still the same now as it was then yet we choose not to see it, we just play it off.
Just my two cents worth!
RR
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Post by ET on Sept 16, 2012 5:21:42 GMT -5
Malachi 3:6 "I am God and I do not change!" RR 78Riverrat There is no denying that truth. What I’m looking at is mankind’s relationship with God. In the Old Testament God conveyed his message to the people through the prophets who were selected by God. God kept His association with people separated because of sin. Even when He was present in the ark the ark was surrounded by a veil creating a wall of separation from sinful people. Upon Christ’s death that veil was torn exposing the ark. In other words the wall separating God from people was removed. Then the coming of The Holy Spirit to reside in believers bonded that relationship with God. This also now allows God to directly communicate with us without the need for a prophet as an intermediary. God never changes as mentioned but our relationship with Him has changed since the coming of Jesus. No more sacrifices for our sins is needed as Christ paid the ultimate price for atonement of our sins. Baptism was introduced upon Christ’s arrival and not seen employed in the Old Testament. Christ’s arrival and teachings along with what will transpire that is found in Revelations combined with the Old Testament has completed The Bible. This provides anyone with the knowledge and truth that seeks and wants to know God along with God’s will (messages) being conveyed. When I combine all this that has been provided for mankind and the changes that have occurred when Christ arrived I don’t see where God has a need to provide a prophet for the people today. Ed
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 17, 2012 5:42:46 GMT -5
In Romans 12:6 Paul writes, “If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith” (NIV). Strong interprets prophecy as a “prediction (scriptural or other), an inspired speaker; or to speak under inspiration.”
In the Old Testament prophecy was often predictive or praying and speaking on behalf of God, calling the people to repent of their sins or face God’s wrath.
In the New Testament, because the scripture was not complete, prophecy was speaking on God’s behalf with authority on the Christian experience.
Paul writes in I Corinthians 14:3 that prophecy was to edify, encourage and comfort the believers.
Prophecy today is still through an inspired speaker. A person with this gift, like its Old Testament counterpart, has a keen awareness of current events and the cultural implications of not following God’s word. This is important because each church is made up of people, customs, and circumstances that are different from others. Prophecy helps us apply the scriptures to where we live. A person with this gift has a burden to warn of God’s judgment and the need for us to repent.
The pitfall of the perceived gift of prophesy is this:
When God speaks to us about the sins of the church or a contemporary application of truth, we need to be careful about the battle for our own mind. It is easy to be pharisaical where we become negative or judgmental.
We need to make sure that we hear from God and not our own inner voice. Being tempted with pride could keep us from being open to discernment or “testing.” We could be blinded to the truth, unable to admit when wrong, not willing to recheck with God.
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Post by ET on Sept 17, 2012 16:20:19 GMT -5
Doug
Thanks for your valued input and response.
Ed
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 17, 2012 18:26:43 GMT -5
Actually Ed......I doubt that I have encountered too many true prophets in my lifetime. There are some that I feel have had the gift of interpreting scripture but not many who can see the future.
Our Lord Jesus gave us many signs of the times to come and warned us that if God were not to intercede there would eventually be no flesh left alive on earth. This seems to indicate nuclear destruction but I am no prophet.
I actually don't think you need to be prophetic to see what is going on in this world and in this country. When a political party votes by casting voices as to whether to mention God or not.......well, the scriptures seem to be coming alive and very pertinent in their predictions.
Ed, I do agree with you that God has spoken. We now have everything we need to equip us for salvation, edification, sanctification and purity. God please grant us the courage to endure.
Doug
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Post by ET on Sept 18, 2012 20:38:30 GMT -5
God please grant us the courage to endure. Doug Amen Doug I will admit my trying to walk with God and follow his Word daily is difficult at times. And when I discovered I failed afterwards it becomes very disheartening. But my encouragement returns when I view Peter’s life. Here I see how forgiving our God is and how He restores us when we ask forgiveness. What a wonderful example (encouragement) of His love provided to us. Yes the world is degrading over time in many ways as foretold. Christ Himself said not to be concerned about this as it will come to pass. Our concern should be our relationship with God. That’s the hard part at times when living in this age and its surroundings (temptations) is not to allow ourselves to get caught up in it causing us to sin. I can’t think of anyone alive today that I would consider them a prophet. Christ sent disciples out into the world to further the task of spreading God’s word until His return. There are such men that I would call true Disciples of Christ/God. Ed
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2012 20:39:55 GMT -5
This morning while I as at the mens group I attend every Tuesday it dawned on me about a Prophet I met. I was going threw a time in my life where I was really searching for God and going threw a really tough time in my life, divorce. Either way during church one Sunday they had a guest speaker who was very awesome! His service went long and suggested we break and if anyone wanted to finish it come back after lunch. I couldn't resist and went back after lunch. This is where it got interesting he was speaking on how to hear God's voice when praying for people and how to reveal what God wanted them to hear while you were praying for them. He ended up praying for me and a lot of it I was like "Yep sounds like a psychic was stating very broad stuff that could fit anyone!" Until he got to the end of the pray which hit me like a train! He said "Oh by the way God wants you to know that Christianity isn't boring!!!" This is how I had been feeling at the time and had not told anyone. It really hit me hard and I couldn't explain it other than the fact that it was God speaking to him! People might doubt what happened however I don't and I know it was God talking to him.
I believe a lot of us and including me, is that we are not in tune with God and therefore we miss the times he does talk to us. Which hinders our walk with God.
May we all seek and continue to grow closer to him.
River Rat (Chad)
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 21, 2012 19:37:21 GMT -5
God please grant us the courage to endure. Doug Amen Doug I will admit my trying to walk with God and follow his Word daily is difficult at times. And when I discovered I failed afterwards it becomes very disheartening. But my encouragement returns when I view Peter’s life. Here I see how forgiving our God is and how He restores us when we ask forgiveness. What a wonderful example (encouragement) of His love provided to us. Yes the world is degrading over time in many ways as foretold. Christ Himself said not to be concerned about this as it will come to pass. Our concern should be our relationship with God. That’s the hard part at times when living in this age and its surroundings (temptations) is not to allow ourselves to get caught up in it causing us to sin. I can’t think of anyone alive today that I would consider them a prophet. Christ sent disciples out into the world to further the task of spreading God’s word until His return. There are such men that I would call true Disciples of Christ/God. Ed Keep in mind that both Peter and Judas did betray Jesus. Both men walked with him and ate with him and participated in great miracles with him. Judas sold Jesus away and Peter distanced himself and was in complete denial of Jesus. Yet when Peter heard that the stone to the burial tomb had been rolled away and that only the linens of Jesus were left in the tomb......Peter ran as fast as he could to Jesus. Can you imagine the guilt and shame that must have accompanied Peter as he ran toward the tomb? Yet Peter did not do what Adam and Eve did after their sin by running and hiding from God. Nope......Peter loved Jesus and would come to Jesus and ask forgiveness from Him. We can all learn a little something from that don't you think? When we sin we do have an advocate with the Father who is Jesus. But instead of running to our advocate sometimes we hide from Him. The Gospel is this......that God's love for us is much more powerful than the guilt and shame of our sin. Once we really come to grips with that and instinctively come to the Father on our knees in repentance.....it is then that the power of sin with all of it's shame and guilt will discontinue to rule in our lives. Doug
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Post by ET on Sept 22, 2012 4:49:41 GMT -5
Dougedwards
Comparing Peter and Judas as you’ve described is a thought provoking perspective. I see Judas as trying to destroy Christ and profit from it. I see Peter’s denial as an act of self preservation to avoid a painful death. Yes both can be considered as a self interest response.
There is no denying that Judas’s act was one of a planned betrayal but for some reason I can’t compare Peter’s act of spontaneous denial as betrayal but one of abandonment.
“When we sin we do have an advocate with the Father who is Jesus. But instead of running to our advocate sometimes we hide from Him.”
That is so true as well as trying to hide or bury a sin with reasoning of it as being unintentional or minor infraction that shouldn’t count as such. Until we accept our true nature of sinfulness knowing only God can forgive us when we confess our sins to Him can we be restored and healed. This is one hard lesson to learn especially if you have carried guilt for years before finally being released from the guilt by God’s forgiveness after confessing to Him, acknowledging your sin.
Ed
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 22, 2012 6:28:45 GMT -5
Yes, very thought provoking. Knowing that our Father is a God of justice but also of grace, it all provokes me to think this........
What if Judas who was sorrowful for his act of betrayal had come to Jesus on his knees in repentance instead of succumbing to his guilt and shame?
What would have happened if Adam and Eve had run to God after their betrayal instead of running and hiding from God?
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Post by ET on Sept 22, 2012 10:04:52 GMT -5
Dougedwards
Those are two good questions I don’t have answers for nor has one ever been provided to me.
But my thoughts do turn towards that the root of sin is Satan’s influence/temptations, as seen starting with Adam & Eve causing their disobedience to God’s will. So another good question here is would Adam & Eve have sinned if they were never tempted by Satan? There will be a time coming that Satan will be removed and forever locked away. With Satan’s influence removed sin should no longer have a foundation to exist and only God’s will should shine brightly thereafter.
But until that time comes all our reliance (belief) needs to be on God’s Grace and His Word to carry us through this difficult time. This is a freedom of choice an individual was given. What I do find ironic is that angels too were given a choice.
Ed
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 22, 2012 12:55:47 GMT -5
Good thinking! I am only one person who has an opinion but I believe that nothing can occur outside of God's ordinance. 1 Peter 1:20 indicates that even before Adam and Eve were created that God had ordained that Jesus would be sent as a lamb to cover the sins of the world.
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
This seems to imply that Satan did NOT sneak into the garden behind the God's back but the temptation of Adam and Eve was allowed by God.
I am no theologian and am only speculating here. But as the first man had only one commandment to keep and was tempted to distrust and betray God by intentionally disregarding God's single warning, so the second Adam must come to live a life of PERFECT submission to God before He could qualify as a sacrificial lamb without blemish. If Christ was chosen even before the creation of the world for this purpose then it stands to reason that God foreknew the outcome of the serpent's temptation to Adam and Eve.
Yes, hard to understand fully but if God is sovereign and omniscient then God also allows evil as a contrast to His holiness to exist. Of course, then an obvious question is proposed.
"If God is in control of all things and allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted in full knowledge that the first couple would succumb to this evil temptation.......how can He hold Adam and Eve responsible for their sin?
It is my thought that the explanation resides within the 9th chapter of the book of Romans but theologians have been discussing this subject for centuries. There is one thing that we all know for certain. God knows the answer to all things and eventually ALL truth will be revealed.
Doug
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Post by ET on Sept 23, 2012 5:44:22 GMT -5
Dougedwards
I have no doubt God is in control and Satan’s limited acts are allowed by God. Here I rely on the story of Job where God allowed him to be tested by Satan but Satan was not allowed to take his life. After the damage was done by Satan God restored Job better than before. Also noted is that God knew the outcome before it occurred. As often seen God can take whatever damage Satan has done and turn it around for His Glory. This signifies to me that God is in full control of all things.
There are a lot of unknowns that will either cause a person to turn away or fully place their trust & faith in God. Like yourself and other believers I look forward to the time where all Truth is revealed. For now we have to seek and continuously learn one step at a time through His Word that was provided for us. Learning about God through His Word also draws us closer to Him as more of Him is revealed.
As to your last question, "If God is in control of all things and allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted in full knowledge that the first couple would succumb to this evil temptation.......how can He hold Adam and Eve responsible for their sin?”
From another perspective are they to be held fully accountable, responsible for their sin of disobedience and are to suffer the wages of sin or has God provided a means as well to nullify that responsibility through forgiveness? To simplify this God has let Satan into the world but by doing so He knew the cost of sacrificing His son was required to pay the acceptable price for atonement (forgiveness) of sins but is only meant for those that chose to seek God and forgiveness.
I’m at a loss to understand why God chose to go this route but my understanding of why is not as important as confessing, asking for and accepting the forgiveness God has graciously provided.
Ed
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Post by dougedwards on Sept 24, 2012 12:23:44 GMT -5
Dougedwards I have no doubt God is in control and Satan’s limited acts are allowed by God. Here I rely on the story of Job where God allowed him to be tested by Satan but Satan was not allowed to take his life. After the damage was done by Satan God restored Job better than before. Also noted is that God knew the outcome before it occurred. I like the part where Job demanded that God show him the sin that brought on all of his tribulations and God called Job to stand before Him as a man and asked Job where he was when God set the foundations of the earth!! In other words God was saying "who are you to question God?" We have to assume that Job gave God no lip as we know that Job was blessed after that encounter. What a privilege it would be to stand before God and be chastised by Him since it is God who disciplines and rebukes that they He loves! I’m at a loss to understand why God chose to go this route but my understanding of why is not as important as confessing, asking for and accepting the forgiveness God has graciously provided. Ed For some reason, even though I have a great problem understanding so much about spiritual and kingdom things, this particular choice of God to show His love for all of humanity by sending His Son as a supreme sacrifice is somewhat understandable to me although it is not reasonable by carnal terms. I know that if I were God I would have probably just thrusted the earth into space like a meteor and started all over from scratch after Adam and Eve had bought into the serpent's lie and then Cain killed Able. What can you do with a creation like that?? But not God.....His plan was to show all of His creation in the universe the extent of His grace and kindness for us. Ephesians 2:4-7 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.There is none like our God who has been in pursuit of man since the beginning. We reject him, defy him, deny him and ignore Him.....yet He continues to pursue us. Sometimes I wonder how all of this could be true. It is in those times that I call on my experience with God and how He never left me even though He allowed me to experience great pain in my life. God is soooo good! You don't need to be a prophet to realize that!
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Post by ET on Sept 24, 2012 16:42:49 GMT -5
Dougedwards
To you and 78riverat thank you for your response to this thread. It is refreshing to hear from other believers and sharing views on scripture related.
Gentlemen have a good day and God Bless
Ed
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Post by Buckrub on Oct 1, 2012 9:02:20 GMT -5
Sorry to be late on replying to this...........
I don't think there are any "inspired" prophets among us. If some of the above definitions mean "prophet" to be a very intelligent, learned man, then fine. But I think that misuses the word, actually.
II Tim 3:16 says that Scripture is complete, perfect, and available to instruct and reprove us. If so, what need is another prophet to provide more scripture?
Rev 22:18 says that no one can EVER add one word to the existing word as given, that it is complete and 'ready to go'. This is why I decry Islam and Mormonism. (I see both as similar in one respect.....both claim a 'latter day' prophet showed up and somehow was given a book to write that is more important than the Bible)
John 17:17 says "Sanctify them through your truth; YOUR word is truth".
1 John 4:1 says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
It's clear to me where the totality of God's inspired plan comes from, and it is from no modern day prophet. "Try the prophets" is to compare them to the existing, inspired word. If they are congruous, they are not prophets but preachers of the existing word, adding nothing. If they are adding, then they are false prophets.
My two cents.
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