|
Post by ozark on Jul 21, 2012 20:09:26 GMT -5
As we all know, there are many different beliefs under the religious umbrella. Each of us could name dozens but remove personal experiences and it would be difficult for anyone to be specific on which is the only true one. For the sake of discussion, I will mention my position on the issue. I see God as an all knowing, all powerful, fair and honest judge of us humans. I would not want to face another on judgement day because I think I will be judged by what I really am rather than what I have been led to believe. I think it would be foolish of me to pretend or create my own method of serving God. He would see through my selfish effort in a heartbeat. So, I just trust God believing that I will will get a fair judgement on how I really am at heart. I am aware that several will feel a desire to alter my opinion. Any effort would be wasted, I am what I am an God is the only source I am willing to fully trust. Disagreeing with me will not offend me. Your thoughts would be appreciated. May God's will be done. I trust it surely will be so. Ozark
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 22, 2012 5:38:44 GMT -5
Ozark
If I read your post correctly you believe God will judge you by your merits for the individual that you are? This saddens me because of what the judgment outcome will be. The Bible (Gods Word) is specific about this.
If you truly are trusting God then would you not want to know God through His Word? My final question would ask of your relationship with Jesus Christ, Gods Son. Again the Bible is specific about accessing Heaven when our time here on earth is done. There is only 1-way.
God is not a mystery to figure out as He reveals Himself through His Word found in the Bible and this doorway is always open to those seeking and wanting to know Him.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 22, 2012 7:59:55 GMT -5
I am aware of what is taught in the Bible and acceptable to those who takes it to be the only authority. I can't believe anyone understands what is parable and what is not. I am lookig at the whole picture. Not just one viewpoint. Man has created many Gods and as far as I know there may be many. I think it is dangerous to limit your viewpoints to just one set of teachings. I expected many to desire to guide me down one path that they have accepted. Right or wrong. Keep your comments coming. Thanks
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2012 10:44:55 GMT -5
I was raised a christian and have all ways struggle with certain things. In 2005/2006 I went threw a divorce because I couldn't be the husband my ex wife wanted me to be. Which in turn lead her to break our vows and for me to be distant from her. During this time I felt the most comfortable reading the bible and spending a lot of time talking to God. I kept asking God there has to be more to you and something has to change in my life. During that time I realized there is WAY more to God than we as humans allow. That we place God in a box and that he has limits. Do christians realize that when Jesus walked the earth he did so many things that the majority of the people thought he was crazy and that there was no way he could do the things he did. My point is that we only let God do certain things and that our minds are not open to his fullness. We don't fully trust in him to do the things he can do and in our lives.
I used to believe it was my works that got me into heaven however it is what we allow him to do in our lives. WE need to fully depend on him to control our lives. We must lie down our lives and then he can complete our lives. I still struggle with doing works and I still struggle with judging yet it is threw God's grace that saves us, by sending his son to die for our sins.
Whether we agree or disagree one thing is for sure God is our father and he loves us no matter what. Having a relationship with him is what he wants and that what we believe is what we believe. God says we will have a hard time understanding his word fully but with a relationship with him he will reveal his purpose for our lives.
River Rat
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2012 10:45:44 GMT -5
One thing that stands out in the Bible for me and that is that either your with God or you're against him......I'm not a scripture reciter but that was what I was taught in Sunday school.....God Bless...!!!! We are all sinners thats a given.....but one must BELIEVE and ACCEPT..... GOD as their SAVIOR .....Or forever burn in HELL..... Ozark ,I respect your take on what God means to you, but do you really want take that chance......Something to think about......Also, the prayers that were sent for your recovery were sent to the Trinity and not to Buddha....... Greenhorn
|
|
|
Post by ozarxoffspring on Jul 22, 2012 14:38:11 GMT -5
Oh, Greenhorn, that was FABULOUS, and I agree with you, totally! I just would like to touch on a few things that I have gleaned along my walk with Christianity and my personal relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior. 1. My answer to the "What about the people who lived and died BEFORE God became man?" My answer to this frequently asked question is this: All peoples were, and will be judged by their FAITH and OBEDIENCE to the commands of God. Abraham was pre-Jesus, and Abraham was acknowledged as the founder of the Israelites. Abraham followed God’s instructions, and God made a covenant with him, promising to give Abraham land (the nation of Israel), a son though his wife Sarah, and a great nation. The covenant also specified that those who blessed Abraham and his family would be blessed and those who cursed them would be cursed. God spoke DIRECTLY to Abraham, and Abraham was obedient to the will of God. Was he perfect and without sin? Certainly not! You can read about Abraham in Genisis and quickly find he was human, and innately sinful.
2. David was known as "A man after God's own heart, and he made MANY poor decisions to include; lust, conniving, scheming, adultery, murder, and fornication. BUT, there came a time when David became a broken man and fell to his knees asking forgiveness from God. Though he was forgiven and turned his life around, David still had to endure the consequences of every one of the sins he committed. Like David, we, too, will always face the consequences of our sins, even AFTER turning away from them, asking forgiveness for them, and knowing we have been forgiven.
3. I have often been asked about a question about "Once saved, always saved." I asked my pastor at the time to give me a short, yet piercing answer I could give someone who asked me about that very thing since there are so many beliefs concerning the subject. And without so much as a pause, he did. He said concerning those who feared losing their salvation and dieing before having a chance to ask forgiveness, to assure them with the fact that at the time of Jesus' death on the cross ALL of OUR sins, past, present AND FUTURE, were already forgiven at the time of our being saved, because when he preached about salvation, He said All of our sins were forgiven at the time we realized we were sinners, asked for forgiveness, believed Jesus was who He said He was, the Son of God, and that he walked on this earth among the people of that time, He died FOR our sins, again, PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE, and that He was buried, and three days later ROSE from the dead, defeated death, and walked the earth, and ascended into Heaven where He waits for WHOSOEVER WILL believe! Well, at that time....WE HAD YET TO BE BORN! So, not only did His preaching/teaching apply to the people of that time, but to us, people who were chosen to be born in THIS century, this perfectly and divinely designated point in time saved especially for US! Simply put: He saved ALL sins, and that includes sins we have not yet committed. Though I had heard that part about Him saving all of our sins, until my pastor explained it to me the way he did, it never had the impact that it did when he explained it the way he did. I sure had a miraculous epiphany! Praise God!
4. Concerning troubles, trials, and strength and endurance. Again, my no-frills pastor explained all of this to at least me, and I am sure many others, in one of his Sunday morning services. He explained it like this: It is well-known to Christians, and most likely multitudes of people who attend church because it just seemed like the thing to do in the Bible Belt in which we live, that God's time and our time are worlds apart. We must be faithful in times of trouble, even MORE than in times of fortune, blessings, and "mountain top" eras of our lives. But the truth is, we look and can see only the here and now...much like watching a parade through a knot hole in a wooden fence. When we are swimming in swift waters and feel as if we cannot go any further, our thoughts at that time are most likely focused on the end of our lives and wonder why we see no life raft, no rope, no hand out to save us. So, it is natural to be keenly aware of our impending death. Our eyes are fixed laterally, straight ahead, as if looking through that knothole in that rickety old wood fence. You see, when we are viewing our troubles, trials, and tests like that, we are not looking up for our relief, trusting that God is in control of every little detail in our lives, whther it be sunshine and roses or torrential rain and floods.
Our view from that knothole does not tell us if the parade just began or if it is almost over. In essence, his message was simply this: Trust God and believe HE knows where you are in that parade, and He knows that all you have to do is TRUST Him, Read His Word to learn more about Him, His attributes, His promises, and His instructions for your life. So, not knowing where your float is positioned in this parade, Trust Him and Hold His hand--the very hand which was nailed to a rugged cross in order to die for your (and my) sins. He is faithful. He will never leave nor forsake you. He will NEVER put more on you that you can stand. He formed you in your mother's womb, so he knows you intimately. Believe that, trust that, and KNOW He has not left you alone to flounder as a fish out of water. Claim His promises and forge on in peace knowing He loves you and wants only the best for His children.
Thank you so much for allowing me to mingle among some of the best people in the world, you.
Teresa
|
|
|
Post by dannoboone on Jul 22, 2012 16:36:17 GMT -5
Ozark, listen to your daughter.
You raised a very wise person in Teresa.
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 22, 2012 17:55:58 GMT -5
I appreciate all the interesting replies, but still have thoughts of my own. Bible believers tend to use passages to prove itself. There are some tall tales in the King James version of the Bible, that stresses human logic. It is difficult to believe a man survived three days in the belly of a fish. We cannot logically assume that this is possible and therefore, it creates more doubt than belief. Using a book in an effort to prove its authenticity doesn't foster belief. The human mind needs supporting evidence. What you or I believe is valuable only to the extent they harmonize with reality.
If Jesus Christ died on the cross affected forgiveness for all of our sins, there is no need for us to seek forgiveness and repentance. I can't see where I need to be forgiven twice. In my original post, I tried to separate personal experiences because these experiences apply only to a particular individual. I believe the Jewish faith is still waiting for the Messiah, while the Christian faith believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Both faiths fully believes their take on the subject. IMO, total acceptance of one erases any truth that may be in the other. For me personally, putting all my eggs in the same basket would be a mistake. If I learn some truth tomorrow, I want to be free to accept it. God's will has always and will continue to be done, regardless of what we want to be done. Thank you, and keep the posts coming! Ozark
|
|
|
Post by cfvickers on Jul 23, 2012 6:09:16 GMT -5
My understanding is John 3:16 (For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.) But to believe, you have to believe that 1. Jesus Christ is the Son of God, 2. That Christ was crucified on the cross so that you and I could be saved from our sins. 3(or 1). There is only 1 God. Now my understanding and experience is that when we truly believe in our heart we will be convicted to live better and ask forgiveness daily for our sins. yet your ticket to Heaven is to believe sincerely. If it is insincere, it is nothing. If you need proof as I did, ask him, challenge God to show you. I have twice and both times he has shown me.
Ones works, in my understanding, absolutely can not get you to heaven. I m quite certain that for the most part we will be judged on our hearts not our actions.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 23, 2012 7:31:58 GMT -5
Ozark
I am curious and have to ask one simple 2-part question. What do you know of the God you believe/trust in and what foundation is this knowledge based on?
The term “Harmonize with reality” is just another way of expressing “acceptable human reasoning”. And it can be seen where human reasoning has taken mankind in his relationship with God.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 23, 2012 17:29:23 GMT -5
ET, To me evolution doesn't make sense. Example: Since the vegitation needs polination from insects to survive, then both would have to evolved instantly. This leaves only a creator and naturally God has to be credited. Long ago I decided that salvation was either balonia or the most important thing we face. I had a personal experience that left me with no doubts about my status with the Almighty. But, as I have mentioned, these personal experiences are just a personal experience and not helpful to all. Mankind has never been able to accept that they live and die to rot. They have all some beliefs that there is more. The happy hunting grounds, for example. I knew when I started this thread that many would read into it that I needed guidance. That most would try to lead me down the path of their own beliefs. Actually, my hope was to help others look at the whole picture rather than some accepted belief. Quoting scriptures and using the bible to prove itself doesn't work with todays educated. They demand more proof. Note how many young are ignoring the conventioal church. Let me assure you that my relationship with God is solid. I have no doubts because of my personal rebirth. I am ready to be judged. Our example is probably more valuable than our preaching. Hope this clears up some of your questions ET. Ozark
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 23, 2012 21:51:02 GMT -5
Ozark
Thanks for your honest reply.
God has given every man and woman the freedom of choice on how to live their lives. He also invites everyone to become a member of his family and enjoy the rewards He has prepared for His family to enjoy eternity with Him. This is a process requiring your willingness to accept Christ, allow Him to come into your life and attempt to follow His teachings. His guidance is found in the Bible so you can’t really know Him or His will unless you read His Word that He has provided for us.
Yes the world today is becoming more Godless as time passes and judgment will come at a time of God’s choosing. Whether it be in my lifetime or not my only concern here is my relationship with Christ so that when I appear before the Father I will be covered by Christ’s righteousness from the shedding of His blood signifying I am His child. Then my judgment is not one of condemnation but rewards He has promised.
As for the believing of a man surviving in the belly of a whale for 3-days the God I believe in has no limitations of what He can do or make happen. To not accept this I would be in a way judging God, insulting and dishonoring God by putting limitations on Him when He has none.
The only final comment I have here is that human reasoning is a tool that Satan employs to his advantage to separate us from God but Divine Guidance and Understanding is what God supplies for His Children through His Word.
Ed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2012 21:58:09 GMT -5
Ozark Thanks for your honest reply. God has given every man and woman the freedom of choice on how to live their lives. He also invites everyone to become a member of his family and enjoy the rewards He has prepared for His family to enjoy eternity with Him. This is a process requiring your willingness to accept Christ, allow Him to come into your life and attempt to follow His teachings. His guidance is found in the Bible so you can’t really know Him or His will unless you read His Word that He has provided for us. Yes the world today is becoming more Godless as time passes and judgment will come at a time of God’s choosing. Whether it be in my lifetime or not my only concern here is my relationship with Christ so that when I appear before the Father I will be covered by Christ’s righteousness from the shedding of His blood signifying I am His child. Then my judgment is not one of condemnation but rewards He has promised. As for the believing of a man surviving in the belly of a whale for 3-days the God I believe in has no limitations of what He can do or make happen. To not accept this I would be in a way judging God, insulting and dishonoring God by putting limitations on Him when He has none. The only final comment I have here is that human reasoning is a tool that Satan employs to his advantage to separate us from God but Divine Guidance and Understanding is what God supplies for His Children through His Word. Ed Ed, Very well put!! I only wish I could explain myself in this way however I am not very good with my thoughts and putting them to words so people understand me. However, you did a great job and thanks for sharing with us. Ozark, If I tried to push you in one way or another I am sorry and didn't mean anything by my earlier post. I believe that everyone has their own type of relationship with God and that is between him and God! Thank you for starting this thread! My hope is that this thread will strengthen our beliefs as Christians and that we can all pull together! River Rat
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 24, 2012 5:09:25 GMT -5
Someone define for me what/who Satan is? I am looking at opinions to the questions below
If God created everything, why would he insert a Satanic figure in the mix? What motive is there to a) create people that can think. b) challenge them to believe in something that goes against logic in many ways c) and constantly have people pitted against each other discussing what is, or is not, the real 100% truth about things.d) what is the purpose for threatening eternal doom and fire just because your mind, that was created by God, doesn't allow you to grasp everything as clearly as some profess to do?e) Why is there that threat? Threats are bad in my opinion and I personally don't like them. They create an image of something not of pure goodness but one of control.
I must agree with almost everything Ozark has said, especially in some of his first few posts on this thread. His analysis and comments mirror most of my thinking. This is a good thread and in many ways reminds me of some of the bullet discussions we have on the other forums. Everyone is an individual who finds there own ways to look at a topic and draw there own conclusions and analysis of a subject.
Nothing drives me further from believing in something than another person telling me I should. I too enjoy all the comments here, as long as I am not made to feel "wrong" (and I am sure many of you do feel I am)
I'll be off the computer for 2 days starting in about 5 minutes, out of town to attend the funeral of my last grandparent who passed Thursday. She was 100.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 24, 2012 8:10:25 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
First off I want to extend my condolences to the loss of your grandparent.
Satan is a fallen arch angel that has rebelled against God and his minion/legion of demons are also fallen angels. They are angles who by choice have chosen to rebel against God and not acknowledge God’s sovereignty. It appears angels have also been given a choice.
God did not choose to create a race of people who were to be manipulated like robots. He wants people to freely choose to worship and praise Him for Who He is. Why He did it this way I can’t answer that question.
Many perceive condemnation to hell as a threat when it is a choice to either end up there or in Heaven with God. God has outlined the results of your decision concerning Him. You have freedom of choice but no power of control over the result of your choice.
Why did God create hell? It can only be conceived as a place where evil and sin can be forever separated from God and His family in Heaven. When God created mankind He gave each person an individual living soul that will continue on after mortal death. Your living soul which makes you the individual you are has the freedom of choice of where it will reside for eternity. Keep in mind that choice to accept God and His Word must be made now in your mortal lifetime. It’s your call.
Ed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2012 14:42:36 GMT -5
Just to add a little to ET's reply........It is what we do and the decisions we make while we are here on this earth as to where we will end up........IT is the "Trials and Tribulations that we face and Overcome that makes us stronger and develops our soul and a stronger bond with the Lord .......Nobody ever said that this life we live was going to be peaches and cream , Brotherhood and the Lord keep me going when the chips are down....... Gh
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 25, 2012 17:42:22 GMT -5
I hope here to help create more thoughts and discussion. Looking at the bible we find that in the beginning God created the heavens (more than one) and earth. This suggests that there is more than one heaven. Christ said:"In my house are many mansions,were it not so. I would have told you. He also said He would go and prepare a place for us so that where He is we can alos be. This suggests that the place was not already prepared. Does this mean another manison or heaven for the followers of Jesus Christ? The multiple heavens seem to account for perhaps all dedicated God serving people of the past? It is not unreasonable that there is a special heaven being prepared for the followers of Jesus. St. Paul started several churches designed from the teachings of Jesus Christ. Then, there is roughly eight hundred years that contains a gap of information. Verly verly, I say unto you that unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. He wasn't talking to moses, Abraham or those who were before his birth and teachings. He was addressing those who were familiar with the New Testimate church. I think we can agree that God will be the judge and that justice will be done. This supports the thought that there is a special heaven being prepared for the Christians who honestly serve the teaching of Jesus Christ. Perhaps one more of many heavens or mansion. It also covers the just and honest God fearing people of the past. Think it over and reply please. I am not trying to persaude anyone to change their faith or beliefs. Just trying to foster thoughts. Ozark
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 25, 2012 21:22:37 GMT -5
Ozark
Heavens to me means both the unseen heaven and the visually seen heaven as we look upwards. The language of that day was limited to specific description. Example; Today when looking at a star I would reply seeing a bright star out in space. Whereas back then it would be referred to as seeing a bright star in heaven. There was no knowledge or concept of space or existence of galaxies as we have come to know today.
“Christ said:"In my house are many mansions, were it not so. I would have told you. He also said He would go and prepare a place for us so that where He is we can alos be.” If you wanted company to come and stay with you would you not warmly invite them saying you will prepare accommodations for their arrival? Christ’s home is Heaven with accommodations (mansions) for all His believers. This will also include those before Christ’s time. I know you will say how’s this possible? I encourage you to read further in the Bible on how God instructed His people for the atonement and forgiveness of their sins before Christ arrived. So all I can see is one Heaven.
“Verly verly, I say unto you that unless you are born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven”. You are right that He was not communicating this to the people in the past but to people in the present and the future. His death and departure has now brought the Holy Spirit into the world to guide believers in their lifetime. Part of the rebirth is now the presence of the Holy Spirit to believers who have accepted Christ.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 26, 2012 4:57:22 GMT -5
Are these fair questions for a follower (or questioner) of Christianity?
A 21 year old man who was very religious and had accepted God since childhood has a bad day....he wakes up gets drunk...drives to town and kills 4 people with his car at an intersection. He dies too. Where's he going? Heaven or Hell?
An 80 year old man who's lived a life as a pedofile that was never caught, perpetrator of terrible crimes gone unsolved...he gets cancer. In the last days of his life, he has second thoughts and begs for forgiveness in his final hour. He accepts what ever is required to accept, and he really means it. Where's he going?
a 2 year old gets killed in an accident. Where is he going? What is the age exemption of getting in? Is it the same for all?
I attended a Catholic mass yesterday. All the reading were asking that the Lord take her in...all the Catholics present would repeat the request. At the burial, similar requests were made to have her accepted in heaven. Wasn't that already determined before yesterday? What does the living have to do with changing the mind of God in the event her soul, which left her body several days ago, had already gone to one place or another?
These are questions I have and things that my mind churns with
Curious to what you think.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 26, 2012 6:39:18 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
As this discussion deepens what needs to be understood are some parameters to avoid confusion. Christianity revolves around Christ, His teachings and acceptance of who He is. Christ also warns of false prophets and teachers as well as many who claim to be followers but are not. This is not made up by me but found in the Bible, Gods Word.
So let’s just take a brief simple look at the catholic faith. Here they teach of purgatory. Now I can’t find any reference or even mention of purgatory in the Bible. What I have found is that when an individual dies here on earth his soul or spirit if you wish to refer to it returns unto God who created it. So what does this reveal to you? There is more but this alone should tell you about the foundation of the catholic faith and its relationship to God.
You are correct in questioning why others request are made for her to enter into Heaven. God has already outlined what is required to ascend into heaven and as God never changes neither will His Word or promises.
Instead of me just quickly jumping in to respond to your questions I invite other believers to join in.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 26, 2012 10:22:03 GMT -5
Truth may, or may not be perecisely what whe believe. I want my positon to be free to accept any new tuth that comes along. With a closed mind the door isn't open to accept any guidance for the living God. I don't know what God has in mind for me to say or do until it is revealed to me. It is human nature for like believers will lean on eachother for support. A million people believing the same thing closes a lot of doors. People are changing and I suspect that God has a handle of how to meet this change. I have tried here to expose some of my thoughts but as expected much resistance has surfaced to vo
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 26, 2012 22:08:42 GMT -5
Ozark
As mentioned we all have freedom of choice and if your quest is to continue seeking what you call the truth then so be it. As for me I have found the truth and salvation in God’s word because God doesn’t lie nor changes. If you sense what you called closed doors you are right for God has provided locks through His Word to keep Satan out and not to be contaminated with his lies. The foundation of my belief is on God and His Word only. Now I need to respond no more to you concerning God and allow you to continue on your quest unhindered.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by deadon on Jul 27, 2012 19:21:19 GMT -5
I am not smart enough to debate you on this subject. I know many people who are too smart to believe in Jesus and as I prayed for you in his name, I pray for them also, and once again for you, in his name. JM2
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 21:47:08 GMT -5
Ozark its been laid out for you............we know where we are going... Do You..? God Bless and I hope you'll be with us for eternity.... Greenhorn
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 27, 2012 22:09:00 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
I can’t give you a definitive answer to the last questions you ask. Why, because I have not been given the divine authority to judge individuals and where their souls will end up. Only God has the divine authority for eternal judgment and reveal the outcome of their judgment.
But your questions did have me reflect on God’s Word. My thoughts immediately turned to the crucifixion where Christ granted a confessed criminal forgiveness and eternal life in heaven. I have wondered what were the crimes this criminal committed to deserve such painful physical death? Murder, rape, robbery or even being a pedophile that would raise such anger in mortal men to demand his physical death? Now if I were to stay focused on this alone I would not see the true power of Christ’s blood to wash away sin and His authority to grant eternal life. But also be warned that 1-sin will not be washed away with Christ’s Blood is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Again in The Bible we read of Christ’s love for children when He rebuked His disciples when they tried to prevent children from approaching Him. He welcomed the children with such love and added a severe consequence would befall anyone who harmed such a child.
In scripture we see that God also provides mortal punishment but yet grants eternal life to the transgressor. Some will say how can this be if He is a righteous God? The moment anyone says/implies this they are questioning God’s divine authority and basically judging Him by their mortal standards. This will not lead to a good ending.
Wilmsmeyer I will be the first one to confess that my knowledge and understanding of God is very limited but continues to grow throughout my lifetime as I seek Him daily in His Word and Prayer.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 27, 2012 22:41:20 GMT -5
I do not seek to stir the pot regarding faith and belief of written words by men. I do not know that God or Jesus wrote the bible. It seems that words written by mortals, interpreted by mortals, are perceived as words of a creator. With so many versions of Christianity I'm just not sure where the faith comes from. I know people in my life that say they are "born again" or "saved" that are continuously looking for a church that will serve them and what they believe. That irk's me. Isn't the truth the truth? If we are exposed to the right way for obvious reasons, isn't there just one way to go? If Satan and the angels that "Defected" had that power over God to be defectors...couldn't God just squash them? Or leave them out there to tempt people into being bad? ?? No one seems to have these answers...only faith in their perceptions.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Jul 28, 2012 7:10:42 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
“I do not seek to stir the pot regarding faith and belief of written words by men”.
There would be no challenging from me concerning that men wrote the words down but if you choose to ignore they are God Inspired to convey Himself to men then all you would recognize are just words. To understand these words you must also be God inspired by the Holy Spirit that God has provided or God’s Words mean nothing or hold any value to the reader.
Yes God could squash Satan and will eventually forever lock him in an eternal pit of fire. Why this path of events was chosen I don’t know. Nor should I devote time and focus away from knowing God. If I truly trust Him in all things then I will leave all divine matters in His hands.
“Isn't the truth the truth?” It is, but man’s own human reasoning and arrogance that prevents total acceptance of the truth. No one that was born of mortal parents can readily accept the truth that God has provided. This is an ongoing process with God’s help with guidance.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Jul 28, 2012 12:25:29 GMT -5
The inspired word of God. How do we know who was inspired and fully believe? Was it Mohamad, Joseph Smith, Budda, Daniel or who? IMO God is very capable of communicating with us directly if He so desires. Why would he leave us seeking knowledge of the truth when He could reveal it to us directly? Reading and studying the Bible is fine but in fear of God should we believe and have faith in all and everything written there? There are few questions that the ten commandnents are good sound principals to go by, however, how do we see them. Thou shalt not kill.... Does this mean deer, insects, an things we consider bad? I see no need or use for ticks, chiggers etc. But were they created for a purpose? This subject can be discussed endlessly without reaching a definite decision on what is fact and what is fiction. Going back to living three days in the belly of a fish has no lesson other than show us that anything is possible with God. Why would he inspire someone to write something that appears to foster more doubt than belief? My purpose in taking this line of reasoning (or unreasoning) is to show that there is to be fear of God. Not just all trust. Fear and trembling is also Bible. I like Wilmsmeyer thinking. He appears to seek a foundation for believing rather than just taking things for granted. I knew better than to discuss religion and politics here but went wrong when the right was clear. Anyway, God bless you all and hopefully, we will all end up approved in the end. Ozark
|
|
|
Post by cfvickers on Jul 28, 2012 20:11:44 GMT -5
Are these fair questions for a follower (or questioner) of Christianity? A 21 year old man who was very religious and had accepted God since childhood has a bad day....he wakes up gets drunk...drives to town and kills 4 people with his car at an intersection. He dies too. Where's he going? Heaven or Hell? An 80 year old man who's lived a life as a pedofile that was never caught, perpetrator of terrible crimes gone unsolved...he gets cancer. In the last days of his life, he has second thoughts and begs for forgiveness in his final hour. He accepts what ever is required to accept, and he really means it. Where's he going? a 2 year old gets killed in an accident. Where is he going? What is the age exemption of getting in? Is it the same for all? I attended a Catholic mass yesterday. All the reading were asking that the Lord take her in...all the Catholics present would repeat the request. At the burial, similar requests were made to have her accepted in heaven. Wasn't that already determined before yesterday? What does the living have to do with changing the mind of God in the event her soul, which left her body several days ago, had already gone to one place or another? These are questions I have and things that my mind churns with Curious to what you think. This was entrapment but I'll have a go. It sounds so terrible that the fate of the first two should be the same or even possibly opposite of what one would think, maybe no one wants to come out and say it. I ain't skeered. First fellow 21 christian all his life, got drunk, drove killed 5 including himself. According to the teachings of my church , "if you die in sin, you will burn in hell for eternity" I love my church, and my church family but John 3:16 is stated as unequivocal in every version I have read. Therefore, unless this young man ceased to believe, which is certainly a possibility considering this was apparently his first time going out and getting hammered(was it because he up and said this is Bull!! ), then he is most likely going to heaven. Next ol feller. If his belief was genuine, christ was crucified so that ALL of us could be saved. His sins are washed away, and he gets to heaven too. 2 year old is going to heaven, the age will vary with the maturity of ones mind. way past 2 in any event. We pray that the lord will let them in when we are afraid that maybe he won't.................
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Jul 28, 2012 21:54:30 GMT -5
So there are theories about this but no concrete answers...That's where i am at. Thinking all the time.
When one finally arrives at what they feel is the right way to view religion...how does it happen? Is it a near death experience? Is it a personal tragedy that make one reconsider what life, or afterlife is about? Why doesn't the truth just be the obvious truth?
It seems easy to fall back on scripture for comfort. But hard to fall back on it if it seems to have weaknesses in logic. I guess people need to just "feel" that it's the right path instead of reasoning things out.
Torturous to those who calculate instead of blindly following a theory.
|
|