Toby's at it again

[edge]

I made some tubular bullets and they were very accurate. They zipped through like butter and probably would be more like a hollow broadhead. I have a golf ball somewhere with a hole thay looks like it were cut with a laser and a 3 inch tree branch that did the same, laying on the ground next to the branch what looked like a dowel, which was the center cut out of the branch.

edge.

[edge]

here are a few of the resulting hollow bullets:









edge.

[jeremylong]

Impressive edge!

[rangeball]

Thanks rossman. It's all coming back to me now

I'm amazed at the expansion on those bullets edge. Did you ever fur test one? Didn't need to use a solid disc between the bullet and sabot?

[rossman40]

I always thought Edge's design was a improvement on the Jada. The center hole was bigger with Edge's. Toby pimped the Jada for a while but I guess they didn't want to pay him. RB shot a few, I think so did SW and a board member in PA. Edge, didn't you shoot a pack or two of the Jada bullets?

The grand daddy of the design maybe was the GECO Action Safety bullet or Blitz-Action-Trauma (BAT) bullet,



The plastic tip stayed in only during loading and firing and then popped out. They tried to sell these to LEOs back in the 70s but never caught on. Still heavily used in Europe and now made by MEN (a Magtech company). Supposedly used by special forces in their MP5s for CQB.

Here is a bullet that may spark interest,



Supposedly this design was refined by Hirtenberger (which is now tied to Fiocchi) as the Fiocchi EMB which supposedly coming to the US market (SD pistol rounds).





Something about in Europe all LEO ammo has to be certified as far as terminal performance way beyond the FBI and NIJ testing here in the states. They want the bullets to be ricochet resistant and stay in whoever they shoot. And of course "green" to protect the environment.

[Al]

May 21, 2012 17:56:52 GMT -5 edge said:

The Old Board started July 2004.

Before that we just had about 5 pages of posts. When a new page was filled the old pages fell into the abyss...man those sabots sucked

Double sabots, Devel bullets, exploding hardware stre loads
Lots of fun and a lot of failed loads.

edge.

I'm guilty of all of the above.

[edge]

I never shot an animal with these.

The Jada bullet had a straight hole through it which has the high drag of a flat nosed bullet.

The bullets that I made, originally of 110 copper in full bore 50 caliber and then switched to red brass in 45 caliber as a sabotted bullet.

They all needed a rigid base wad to prevent drilling.

I designed mine off of a Patent by Abraham Flatau, he also developed several other "ring airfoil" weapons for the military.

That design had instead of a straight hole through it had a compression section up front, then a throat section followed by an expansion section to the rear.

Here is a schematic of one of my bullets:


Here is one in a sabot and machined base wad in 12L14 steel:


Here is a red brass ( fired and unfired ) with some experimental wadding:



HERE IS THE PATENT:

patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4301736.PN.&OS=PN/4301736&RS=PN/4301736

(To see the patent images I think you need Internet Exploder)

edge.

[esshup]

I bought this house in late 2003, and (IIRC) I had bought my first ML-I before that as I think I hunted on this property with it before I purchased the house. I know for certain that I hunted here before purchasing it, just not 100% sure if it was with the slug gun or the ML-I.

It was with help from the board that I got the ML-I shooting great with minimal effort, but I cannot say for certain how long I've been here. It's been a long road, Edge's kitchen sink load, seeing TB's blown barrel with what looked like copper traces in the barrel, (then the pic disappeared). THAT was a long and lively discussion!! ;D

RB's informative posts and developments (d**n, I miss him and his posts), the big "it ain't going to work" about Pressure trace, the even bigger uproar over duplex loads, attending the pig hunts in Tenn., etc., etc. It's been fun and interesting seeing the evolution of the Savage ML, and the upstart copycats come and go. I've done business/had things done by a number of members here and the only one that I wouldn't deal with again is TB. 'nuf said.

Since I have the gun dialed in I don't check in here as much as I used to, but still swing in from time to time. I'll be fooling around with the Pac-Nor .45 when it cools down - I don't have the patience to shoot in high 90's low 100"s temps. IIRC my old screen name was Blue-Dot-37.5

[bigmoose]

I don't know when Toby, joined the board. But after reading an article by him in 2001, I brought my first Savage.
Since I was not there when he blow his rifle, I can't comment, to make a comment with out the facts, would cast me as a fool.
If not for Toby, Savage might have never producted the ML10.
So I offer a tip of my cap to Mr. Bridges
In 01 if you called Savage tech services, rather than giving advice, you got Toby's home phone number, a second tip of my cap to TB

[pposey]

I though that horse had been beaten into the ground yearsssss ago!

[cfvickers]

I have no idea, I believe it to have been user error. However, if comparing Toby to Wakeman, Reading what they write and from a few email exchanges on various subjects involving Savage MLs with wakeman, Toby seems like a much more sensible individual. Randy Wakeman helped when I asked for it, but he is a condescending A-Hole, so his credibility is kind of up in the air for me.

[cfvickers]

Also he just dismissed my use of the 225 FTX and said there was no possible way it could shoot well. Then I went out a couple weeks later and shot a 3/4 inch group with the first load I tried.

[rossman40]

I few of us still remember when RW came on here back in early 2001 and basicly told us we were stupid crazy idiots for using smokeless in a ML and we would all blow ourselves up. Then when TB went thru his "incident" he was scrambling to get TBs job with the Balls and Savage.

At times the feud between RW and TB was comical. I miss the saga of Randy Weird.

[ukwildcat]

I been around a long time. I remember on the old board when I set up m username I inverted the a and c in wildcat. So I wused to be ukwildact... Lol. I feel a lot like edge. I don't check in as much as I used to. My gun shoots extremely well and don't have tons of time for the Internet with 3 little kids. That said this sight should be a must if purchasing any muzzleloader smokeless or other wise. I am thankful to you all for the help friendship etc, as posey said I thought this horse was beaten dead along time ago... I for one am glad there was a savage blown up. Why? It keeps me on m toes when I shoot mine. I don't know what happened or care. I would guess we are all more careful because of it. Joseph told his brothers what you meant for evil GOD meant for good. I would say that even the bad experiences folks has had including the blown up one. Has done a lot if good and saved he noses and eyes of many fathers husbands sons and grandpas. So for that and my own face and life I am thankful. I am thankful for you alls help, have a great day.