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Post by btm723 on Dec 25, 2011 12:33:11 GMT -5
First real post on the board, and first smokeless ML. So as you can imagine I'm pretty overwhelmed at the moment.
I've read the tips and hints, I've browsed a number of threads, and I can now say I'm more confused than I was before. I'm sure most things will become as clear as mud as I get more and more into things, but just wanted to ask a couple of newbie questions.
I've read about bedding, lapping, trigger adjustments, etc. Are any or all of these required for a new MLII, or are these just things that some have done to make things better? I do plan on disassembling the weapon as soon as all the Christmas rush is over, both to clean it well and also to prove to myself that I can and that I can get it back together in one piece.
Any do's, don'ts, or stay away froms will be much appreciated. Look forward to sharing all of my horror stories here so you guys can get a few laughs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2011 12:49:06 GMT -5
Savage MLII ? I assume this is the gun you have, first give it a cleaning and get familiar with it and try some "book" loads to get some time under your belt.. any and all questions can and likely be answered here so dont be afraid to ask anything...Welcome aboard!
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Post by nwtflogan on Dec 25, 2011 12:50:49 GMT -5
From what youll read here some MLII accurate right out of the box while others arent,, bedding ,lapping, floating barrel and trigger adjustments are all extra to give your rifle optimum chance to shine, some need it some dont and it really depends on if your happy with minute of deer or sub moa like some of us!! Dont be intimidated by all the info, for now just concentrate on safety and loading routine and read alot of the load info others have done and find out what your rifle likes, theyre all different but are a ton of fun to shoot ,,,, welcom to a great board with tons of knowledgeable people that will always help ya out , so dont be afraid to ask,,,,,,, like i said get used to 1. safety and routine loading your new MLII and also weighing your powder if you come from smoke and did it by volume ....SMOKELESS IS MEASURED BY WEIGHT! " some use the lee dippers but for me and just starting out smokeless the 25.00 i spent for a digital scale was security for myself! , 2. Get used to your rifle and what it likes, if your lucky youll fall right into that perfect load.3. Once you are used to what you and the rifle can do then tinker with bedding, lapping,trigger adj.,barrel floating and stuf!!!!!
welcome again!!!!
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Post by jeremylong on Dec 25, 2011 12:59:09 GMT -5
Nwtflogan +1. Fantastic to see all the new folks to the smokeless scene.
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Post by gunny on Dec 25, 2011 13:01:22 GMT -5
+ 1
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Post by btm723 on Dec 25, 2011 13:02:09 GMT -5
Yes the ML-II is the weapon I have, Santa was nice to me this year. I guess I got lucky in two regards, my wife was wonderful enough to buy it for me and I also got the last one Natchez had for the year.
I am coming from the smoky stuff, I started ML hunting back in the '80s with a Kentucky that only shot round balls, graduated to a TC Hawken model in 45, then bought a Remington ML a few years back. I was happy with the ML's performance as far as killing and shooting, but just grew tired of the cleaning, mess, and smoke screen after pulling the trigger.
A couple of guys started shooting the Savage in the past few years so I wanted to try to make the switch myself.
I may try to convert my old Remington one day, so that my son can have a smokeless muzzle loader as well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2011 13:09:33 GMT -5
get with Luke here on the board and he can fix you up with bullets/ sabots and related stuff. he can do you a sampler pack of different combos to see what your gun likes. I would start with the .458 bullets. the 325 ftx or remington would be a good start in front of RL-7 or N-120. the key is getting proper fit in the barrel. he can send you both the mmp orange sabot and the harvester bcr to try. take out your plug and push some combos through the barrel while you are cleaning it and use the one with a good tight fit, 50-75 lbs on the bathroom scale.
the tips and hints covers breech plug prep and scope base mounting so pay attention there. learn as you go and be safe. MAKE SURE YOU DONT DOUBLE LOAD YOUR GUN! and have fun
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 25, 2011 13:40:12 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of non-smokers Do try the book loads first. It will simplify things dramatically. Let your barrel cool between shots. And do get ahold of Luke about a sampler pack. This is a very good thing. Some spent a lot of $$$ on things we had to sell afterword's. These guys here will help you with everything you will need and want to know. #1 thing .... ALWAYS put a witness mark on your ramrod. Good Luck and again...Welcome aboard
Drop
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ukwildcat
8 Pointer
No Smoking section please!
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Post by ukwildcat on Dec 25, 2011 22:24:47 GMT -5
One thing I do. Regardless of whether I know it is empty or loaded. Is after my gun has been out of my sight I always drop the ramrod in it. This ties into the witness mark. If my ramrod disappears....she's empty. If I can see it she has something in there. It is a safety thug with my some would say i tend to be a bit OCD about these things but safety first. I always wear shooting glasses when firing any muzzleloading gun...period. Itmis good to have you aboard. One thing a lot have tried... Is tomover complicate. I am one of those.... Shoot the big bullets first 300 or 325 grains. N120 is a powder of consistency along with 4198. Reloaded 7 is a great one. N110 used to be powder of choice by many years ago..this is my pet load powder. Any of these you can get would be a great starting powder. My boss who has no time got one for Christmas I am starting him with n110 if no go n120. Good luck keep us posted!!
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Post by btm723 on Dec 25, 2011 23:36:45 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of non-smokers Do try the book loads first. It will simplify things dramatically. Let your barrel cool between shots. And do get ahold of Luke about a sampler pack. This is a very good thing. Some spent a lot of $$$ on things we had to sell afterword's. These guys here will help you with everything you will need and want to know. #1 thing .... ALWAYS put a witness mark on your ramrod. Good Luck and again...Welcome aboard Drop This sounds like a great idea. Is Luke his screen name? I'll try to pay attention and send him a PM or an email to try to get this ordered. |
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Post by DBinNY on Dec 25, 2011 23:42:14 GMT -5
lwh723 is Luke.
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Post by btm723 on Dec 25, 2011 23:43:29 GMT -5
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Dec 26, 2011 7:22:35 GMT -5
We all have taken a very simple gun and turned it into the "complicated" weapon that it can be.
Like others have said, totally disassemble the gun and clean it. When you put it back together, be sure that it is totally free of excess lubricants. With a completely dry barrel! Put one full wrap of Teflon tape around the threads of your breech plug before inserting it and a very small dab of anti-seize lube on the threads of your vent liner. Wipe ANY residual amount off the face of the plug after you've screwed it in. This will assure you that all these parts will be easily dis assembled
Now go shoot. IMO, if you are good with open sights, shoot several groups at 50 yds. If you get consistent groups, you know the gun can shoot. THEN mount the scope. If the groups get bigger or there are inconsistency problems you can rule out the gun/load and focus on the scope, rings bases and screws that hold the bases on. On some guns, with some mounts, the mount can slightly ride up onto the recoil lug....and some screws are too long and bottom out in the receiver before they are able to clamp the base down securely. If these are issues, they are easily dealt with at home.
In the beginning, shoot no more then 15 shots before a complete dis assembly. Remove the vent and clean your breech plug. Get all the carbon out of the primer pocket and the vent screw threads. (There's easy tips for this in that TIPS section) Check the orifice size of the vent. Using H4198 will extend your vent liner life quadruple or more over book powders. Reassemble as explained above. By doing this and getting the gun back to square one, you will rule out any changes in performance due to carbon build up, vent liner size....and also avoid stuck vent liners which is a big issue for new shooters.
As for loads to start with...just to get you going, get the following:
1) pack of harv black crush rib sabots
2) 1 pound of H4198
3) a pack of .458 cheap bullets. (Rem or Hornaday 300 gr)
4) A pack of FED209A primers
Use 66 gr of powder, weighed. You can move up to 70 if you want later on.
I suggest an after marker recoil pad as a MUST have if you plan on shooting off a bench. Nothing kills a fun experience, or an experience where you need to do your part to see if a gun is doing its' part, then getting a sore shoulder, You'll be flinching the rest of the day.
As always, after you load your VERY FIRST charge, make a witness mark RIGHT NOW. Double loading is TOTALLY avoidable with any ML.
Have fun. After the 1st few times out you will wonder what all the anxiety was all about. By getting your gun back to square one after each range trip, you will be able to do the minor routine with your eyes closed.
After the 1st 50 shots, you should have some idea if you are lucky enough to have a gun that shoots good enough to leave alone. If you are a hunter that shoots mostly inside 150 yds, chances are good you will need to do nothing at all. If you are an accuracy freak that wants SUB MOA, you will probably become obsessive and spend more money getting there then buying the gun. However, I think we could all agree that ANY muzzle loader would take that kind of commitment...not just a Savage. There are ways to enhance them all. Bedding, triggers, bore conditioning, recoil reducers, free floating, machined recoil lugs...it can go on and on.
Good luck!
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Post by gunstock on Dec 26, 2011 8:30:29 GMT -5
One thing that I found out with my 10ML-II is that it shoots better left dirty. When I got my gun back in June I would go to the range and shoot. Come home and clean and then run a couple dry patches down the barrel. On the next range session, I would fire a fouling shot. Then go to work on loads and groups. But for the first couple groups I would have the occasional flyer. I now leave the barrel dirty and the groups are tighter and flyers are gone.
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Post by smokeeter on Dec 26, 2011 9:37:02 GMT -5
let's not forget about ample cooling time between shots. At least 15 mins if you're shooting for groups.
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Post by Richard on Dec 26, 2011 20:11:48 GMT -5
And, if you are still overwhelmed and having problems and want to talk with a live person who has been where you are now- (I'm retired and have some time to talk), PM me and I will give you my number and we can BS!
Welcome aboard
Richard
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Post by btm723 on Dec 26, 2011 20:14:02 GMT -5
And, if you are still overwhelmed and having problems and want to talk with a live person who has been where you are now- (I'm retired and have some time to talk), PM me and I will give you my number and we can BS! Welcome aboard Richard Thanks for the offer and the welcome. i may very well take you ip on this when I venture to the range the first time. I'm sure I'll need to talk to something other than the paper, weapon, and myself |
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Post by 10ga on Dec 27, 2011 10:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by birdkiller1 on Dec 27, 2011 22:04:29 GMT -5
Very important!!! If you would happen to have a misfire remove the primer and then reseat your bullet before you try to fire your gun with a new primer. Fed 209 have never failed to ignite for me
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