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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 12:30:21 GMT -5
Just got back from lunch and to my surprise a box was sitting on my office chair. 50 of the new Cutting Edge Bullet MZL EXP1 inside  Beautiful looking bullets, the pics don't do it justice. Sorry for the poor quality, but my phone camera is lacking when taking closeups and the good camera is out of the office. Bullet-  Side by side with the Barnes 195-  Base-  Bullet mics dead on .40 and 1.126 OAL. Bearing surface just above the sabot skirt. Let the fun begin |
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 12:36:45 GMT -5
In anticipation of their arrival, Savage Shooter and Shooter have put forward their best guesstimates of what powders and what charges to start with, with the latest being this info from Shooter- Edge, what does QL say about these? TGinPA who is willing to do pressure traces has all of these except 2015. I'll be sending some to Savage Shooter and Shooter for BC testing, TG for pressure tracing and Deadeye who will work with them sabotless. Hopefully with these guys efforts we can learn a bunch and I have my fingers crossed we hit it out of the park on our first swing |
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Post by tar12 on May 20, 2011 12:38:56 GMT -5
Who makes these?
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 12:43:10 GMT -5
Prototypes made by Cutting Edge Bullets.
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Post by edge on May 20, 2011 13:06:31 GMT -5
Obviously estimates only:
H-4198 52gr 2300 fps 36kpsi 87% burnt
H-322 60gr 2300f 29k 84%
2015 60gr 2300f 26k 88%
n130 50gr 2100f 24k 85%
10x 60gr 2425f 30k 92%
n120 50gr 2300f 30k 96%
R7 50gr 2250f 30k 90%
Going by past experience, your sabots seem to get lower pressures than those predicted along with velocities higher or lower.
edge.
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Post by rossman40 on May 20, 2011 13:34:42 GMT -5
Before everyone jumps, at least let the initial testing results come in. On paper it looks good but it ain't over till the fat lady sings. We may be marginal on the required twist, I would like to see it tested in the 1:22 and then in a 1:18 down the road. Just be patient and see what the results are on the first round and if it goes good then perhaps Cutting Edge will do another/larger run and we can expand the testing base with more people trying them out.
Rangeball, Did Cutting Edge anneal these?
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 13:51:33 GMT -5
Obviously estimates only: H-4198 52gr 2300 fps 36kpsi 87% burnt H-322 60gr 2300f 29k 84% 2015 60gr 2300f 26k 88% n130 50gr 2100f 24k 85% 10x 60gr 2425f 30k 92% n120 50gr 2300f 30k 96% R7 50gr 2250f 30k 90% Going by past experience, your sabots seem to get lower pressures than those predicted along with velocities higher or lower. edge. Thanks a bunch. I'll leave it to Savage Shooter and shooter to comment, I have no idea how this compares with their estimates, but thanks very much for taking the time to get the data |
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 13:54:45 GMT -5
Before everyone jumps, at least let the initial testing results come in. On paper it looks good but it ain't over till the fat lady sings. We may be marginal on the required twist, I would like to see it tested in the 1:22 and then in a 1:18 down the road. Just be patient and see what the results are on the first round and if it goes good then perhaps Cutting Edge will do another/larger run and we can expand the testing base with more people trying them out. Absolutely. On paper these should work but the real world will let us know if we're on the right track. Once it's worked out, assuming they can be worked out, they should be available for sale pretty much right away due to the machining process. I don't believe so. It was never mentioned. The only time it came up was in one email when I mentioned annealed or softened and they said - |
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Post by jeremylong on May 20, 2011 14:53:32 GMT -5
Watching with excitement....
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Post by shooter on May 20, 2011 15:01:26 GMT -5
Man them bullet looking GOOOD
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Post by dave d. on May 20, 2011 15:02:45 GMT -5
:)wow that looks great I hope they fly in our 22 twists. Can't wait for results.
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Post by Jon on May 20, 2011 15:08:07 GMT -5
Can't wait to see the results. Thank you for all the effort everyone is putting in.
Jon
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Post by Dave W on May 20, 2011 15:23:08 GMT -5
Looks awesome! Great work by all!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 15:26:07 GMT -5
hopefully this is the darling we have been looking for. If they work or take some tweaking, thanks to rangeball and all the contributers to this project. another advancement for us nonsmokers (we will all keep our fingers crossed)
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 15:30:31 GMT -5
I'm hoping to convince them to name it .40 DMBSML |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 15:33:06 GMT -5
If they work out did they give any kind of a price point?
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Post by rangeball on May 20, 2011 15:39:40 GMT -5
Not yet, haven't even discussed price.
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Post by nchillbilly on May 20, 2011 16:36:19 GMT -5
What do the weigh?  |
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Post by shooter on May 20, 2011 16:38:14 GMT -5
Obviously estimates only: H-4198 52gr 2300 fps 36psi 87% burnt H-322 60gr 2300f 29k 84% 2015 60gr 2300f 26k 88% n130 50gr 2100f 24k 85% 10x 60gr 2425f 30k 92% n120 50gr 2300f 30k 96% R7 50gr 2250f 30k 90% Going by past experience, your sabots seem to get lower pressures than those predicted along with velocities higher or lower. edge. Thanks a bunch. I'll leave it to Savage Shooter and shooter to comment, I have no idea how this compares with their estimates, but thanks very much for taking the time to get the data here what i come up with what edges have give us H-4198 making 692 psi per grain and it making 44.23fps and to stay at 32000 psi we have to shoot 46.2 gr with the velocity of 2045 fps. H-322 making 483 psi per grain and it making 38.33 fps and to stay under 32000 psi would be 66.2 gr with a velocity of 2537fps. 2015 is making 433psi per grain and making 38.33 fps and to stay under 32000 psi would be 73.9gr and with a velocity of 2832fps N130 is making 480 psi per grain and making 42fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 66.6gr with a velocity of 2797fps 10x is making 500 psi per grain and making 40.41fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 64gr with a velocity of 2586fps n120 is making 600 psi per grain and making 46fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 53.3gr with a velocity of 2453 fps R7 is making 600 psi per grain and making 45fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 53.3gr with a velocity of 2399 fps Note At some point these powder will come to life that why i would work in 2 gr at a time These are only estimate off of what edges has give us so i would proceed with caution.Hope this help. I think i would try to keep these load under or around 32,500 that were i think we start having sabot problem just my opinion. |
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Post by skennedy on May 20, 2011 16:38:16 GMT -5
You guys are all above my pay grade but keep up the good work. Get them to shoot well and I will buy them.
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Post by deadon on May 20, 2011 17:20:11 GMT -5
It looks good, Thats for sure. Thanks to all who have a hand in this, Rusty
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Post by shivesy on May 20, 2011 17:33:55 GMT -5
What do the weigh? Yea, what do they weigh? |
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Post by deadon on May 20, 2011 17:41:59 GMT -5
240 gr IIRC
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Post by Dave W on May 20, 2011 18:55:11 GMT -5
Thanks a bunch. I'll leave it to Savage Shooter and shooter to comment, I have no idea how this compares with their estimates, but thanks very much for taking the time to get the data here what i come up with what edges have give us H-4198 making 692 psi per grain and it making 44.23fps and to stay at 32000 psi we have to shoot 46.2 gr with the velocity of 2045 fps. H-322 making 483 psi per grain and it making 38.33 fps and to stay under 32000 psi would be 66.2 gr with a velocity of 2537fps. 2015 is making 433psi per grain and making 38.33 fps and to stay under 32000 psi would be 73.9gr and with a velocity of 2832fps N130 is making 480 psi per grain and making 42fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 66.6gr with a velocity of 2797fps 10x is making 500 psi per grain and making 40.41fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 64gr with a velocity of 2586fps n120 is making 600 psi per grain and making 46fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 53.3gr with a velocity of 2453 fps R7 is making 600 psi per grain and making 45fps and to stay under 32000psi would be 53.3gr with a velocity of 2399 fps Note At some point these powder will come to life that why i would work in 2 gr at a time These are only estimate off of what edges has give us so i would proceed with caution.Hope this help. I think i would try to keep these load under or around 32,500 that were i think we start having sabot problem just my opinion. Sabotless loads usually run about a 100fps slower than saboted loads when comparing 200gr bullets. If it holds true for the heavier bullets, your estimates look pretty close to 250gr sabotless velocities I have recorded. |
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Post by Savage Shooter on May 20, 2011 19:34:15 GMT -5
IMO the place to start is with H322 at 65grs. I would expect this to go nearly 2550.
I think I can get pretty good grip on pressures of the other powders using a H322 trace as benchmark to work from.
I KNOW for sure that H322 will work for this bullet weight as either single or duplex, one or the other will work.
Just need to trace one to get starting point.
I tend to think that both H322 and 2015 can work with this bullet.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 20:06:51 GMT -5
this may not be the perfect bullet out of the gate but when all the parameters get covered i think it might well be a good base to start from.If it can be pushed to 2700+ it would be a crowd pleaser for all. except for  mr & mrs deer. It very well could turn into a 400+ killer with much less effect from the wind witch. ALL eyes are wide open |
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Post by jims on May 20, 2011 20:21:44 GMT -5
Now they come out with a bullet like that when my 1 in 28 twist .45 is not too far away. Then we pretty much only had 195s and 200s to use. In all fairness a number of you told me to go much faster in twist.
We shall see, I hope it shoots well in all the twists.
I still have my RB .40 in a 1 in 16 twist so hopefully that will do fine.
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Post by fishhawk on May 20, 2011 20:40:05 GMT -5
Hope this works! Been needing something like this.
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Post by spaniel on May 20, 2011 20:45:23 GMT -5
Hey, if you need another 1:22 tester let me know!  |
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Post by Dave W on May 20, 2011 21:42:22 GMT -5
IMO the place to start is with H322 at 65grs. I would expect this to go nearly 2550. I think I can get pretty good grip on pressures of the other powders using a H322 trace as benchmark to work from. I KNOW for sure that H322 will work for this bullet weight as either single or duplex, one or the other will work. Just need to trace one to get starting point. I tend to think that both H322 and 2015 can work with this bullet. If the 100fps rule holds true, should be very close to your estimate. 65gr of 322 sabotless was approx. 2450fps, same charge of N130 was 2550fps approximately with a 250 SST. |
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mr & mrs deer.