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Post by shooter on Feb 15, 2011 16:11:34 GMT -5
I went to the range today with a Friend of mine, he want to shoot the 45. He said he wanted a good load so I loaded one of my pet loads. I loaded him up some h-4198 and a 200gr SST and let him shoot 3 shots. Heres how nice of shooting he done.  I also shot some n-120 to see the speed. I only shot 2 shots. The ave was 2754fps.The shot was at 100yards.  I had some duplex's to try. Me and savage shooter was talking about the duplex. He gave me a couple to try.I tried 20gr h-4198 and 50gr-h322 and the ave velocity was about 2740, not so good so I tried 25gr h-4198 and 50 gr h-322 ave was around 2780. I also took some 10gr n110 and some 65gr h-322 with me and also took both powders h-322 and the n110 with me. Here are some pictures of the result. This load here was 10-grn110 65gr h-322 100yrds  Note. I tried going up to 12gr on the n110 and 63gr h-322 blowed sabot. I then was talking to mark and he said to go up on the h-322 3 gr I left the n110 at 10 gr and went up to 68gr h-322. Here are the results.  I had 2 powder charges left of the 10gr n110 and 68 gr h-322 and decided to try them at 200yards. When I was trying to weigh the powder out for 12-63 I accidentally poured h-322 in the n110 can and it got mixed up and had to throw it out so I only had 2 shots left.  Here you go Mark |
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Post by deadon on Feb 15, 2011 16:21:02 GMT -5
He sure ought to be happy with those  |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 15, 2011 16:42:48 GMT -5
Looks to me like a PT is in order again. I think this load will kill the secondary spike at the end of the traces we have been seeing with higher booster volumes. It just looked to me like the main powder is running out to quick.
The 15/55 traces still show a bit of secondary spike which is what made me want to lean to more h322 and less n110.
Good job Marty, this should lead to new thought train on the duplex with 195-200 grain bullets.
Time and testing will tell the tale but this looks on path to me.
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Post by dave d. on Feb 15, 2011 16:48:07 GMT -5
:)good job marty and great shooting wow.. looks like the 110 was a good choice.
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Post by TGinPA on Feb 15, 2011 17:15:53 GMT -5
I'm on it.
TG
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Post by herman on Feb 15, 2011 18:24:59 GMT -5
Good shooting Marty.
I shot the n110-10 grs under H322-69 grs last week and got about the same fps as you did.2973
Also I tried 5/69(2779fps) and 15/69(3109fps).Allshot small groups at 100yds.
I think savage shooter has something with the H322 I tried the 15/55 today at 100 yds and had 2 shots to blow I think anyhow 2 shots went low and about a ft and half to the right and my fts dropped to 2600 and 2400.This is the same load that I had blowed sabots with last week.Shot the same load some last year but never had any blown sabots???
Went to 300 and had 2 in one hole another was about 2 in from it and another was about 4 in and couldn't find where one even hit the target board.
I had more of the 10/69 to try today but didn't get around to it.
I did try some IMR 4198 with 64 grs and it gave me just a little slower speed than the H4198, es was very low 3.4 and fps was 2706 avg.
Just shot it at 100 yds,didn't measure the group but would guess about 3/4 in for 3 shots.
Want to try next going up 1 and 2 more grains to get it up to the avg of the H4198.If the ES stays low at different loads it may be better than the H4198.
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Post by edge on Feb 15, 2011 18:33:46 GMT -5
I4198 is bulkier than H4198 so pressures and velocities are generally a bit lower with IMR. Looks like you have something good going their  Great shooting. edge. |
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Post by Jon on Feb 15, 2011 18:57:38 GMT -5
Marty. Keep up the good work
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Post by DBinNY on Feb 15, 2011 20:28:59 GMT -5
Nice shooting Marty. Are you knurling those bullets?
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Post by Richard on Feb 15, 2011 20:42:46 GMT -5
Looking good Marty! Now if you could juuuuuuuuuuusssssssssst squeeze them into 1/2" and do it all the time?  ? ;D ;D Who knows, you may just get there at the rate you are going. Maybe you might even try five shots just for "s _ _ts and giggles" ;D Richard |
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Post by Dave W on Feb 15, 2011 21:03:05 GMT -5
Back when I got the .45 SW and Edge were the only ones duplexing to the best of my knowledge. SW's loads usually relied on approximately 5-10gr of booster IIRC. I thought that was a little light compared to what we were doing in the .50 and went for 10-12gr of booster for my loads.
SW is pretty smart, maybe there was more to his reasoning than it just shot good at that ratio.
Great shooting Marty!
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 15, 2011 21:21:10 GMT -5
Good shooting Marty. I shot the n110-10 grs under H322-69 grs last week and got about the same fps as you did.2973 Also I tried 5/69(2779fps) and 15/69(3109fps).Allshot small groups at 100yds. I think savage shooter has something with the H322 I tried the 15/55 today at 100 yds and had 2 shots to blow I think anyhow 2 shots went low and about a ft and half to the right and my fts dropped to 2600 and 2400.This is the same load that I had blowed sabots with last week. These results tell a tale. fps change from 5 to 10 gr of booster = 194fps gain = 39fps/grain, which is about right. 10gr booster = 390fps added on to base 75gr load of H322 of 2600fps. then 10 to 15 on booster = 136fps gain = 27fps/grain The added 5gr to get on up to 15gr booster will be building a lot more & quicker pressure with less speed gain. Booster is flat lining. IMO booster at the 10gr range is the right place to be. I learned a long time ago sabot integrity is directly related to booster much more so than total charge. Sabot integrity equals more consistency/accuracy. I really liked seeing the low ES, now can this be duplicated on another day? We'll see. Marty 3 shot groups suit me ok, wasn't a planning on needing but ONE anyway. ;D Thanks for your work. |
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Post by Richard on Feb 15, 2011 21:32:50 GMT -5
Providing the first shot goes where its intended For instance, My first shot at 300 yards with the FTX was the slow one and it went way out to the right! The next four more or less grouped to the left. I have shot way too many groups to know that the first shot is not always in the main group. Very often its 2,3& 4 or 3,4&5 that group. There does not seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to the way these groups form. IMHO. Richard |
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Post by shooter on Feb 15, 2011 22:22:51 GMT -5
Nice shooting Marty. Are you knurling those bullets? DBinNY,I quit knurling the Barnes when they come out with the new flat base bullet. Richard,I will try a 5 shot group soon.I messed up my n110 powder.I was at least wanting to shoot another one in that group at 200yd This ain't a half inch load. Thanks everyone  |
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Post by TGinPA on Feb 16, 2011 12:18:13 GMT -5
PT PN45 110/322 10/68 195bx Gage and Module Manufacturer = RSI USB model Trigger Sensitivity = 3, Strain Gage Voltage =5 Gage Factor =2.1 PSI Correction Factor: 0 Barrel Temp = 64-68 degrees F. measured at the sensor (IR). Rifle Stand: Caldwell Lead Sled Altitude: 450 ft Chronograph: Chrony Alpha Model 8 ft from muzzle. (8 fps added to all recorded velocities to correct for distance of chrony from muzzle.) Barrel Type: PacNor .45 Cal Muzzleloader Barrel OD = 1.06 in Barrel ID = .452 Breech Plug:Savage Std. (screw-in ventliner) ventliner orifice .033 in. Sensor dist fm BP=.596 in. Bullet Diam.= .458 in. Bullet Type = Barnes 195bx. Bullet weight = 195 gr. ,knurled. Sabot: Harvester Smooth Blue Powder: All Traces: N110/H322 10/68 gr. Primer :Fed 209 Shot fm dirty barrel NOTE: THIS TRACE HAS BEEN DEEMED TO BE INCORRECT DUE TO A FAULTY CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BARREL PRESSURE SENSOR AND THE PRESSURE TRACE MODULE. A CORRECTED TRACE APPEARS LATER IN THIS THREAD.  |
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Post by edge on Feb 16, 2011 12:27:16 GMT -5
I strongly suspect that the large spike is the connector coming lose from the recoil!
edge.
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Post by TGinPA on Feb 16, 2011 14:46:36 GMT -5
The spike is an artifact. I repeated the test after making setup changes which eliminated the spike and which I will describe in an amended trace after I reformat the data for posting.
TGinPA
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Post by TGinPA on Feb 16, 2011 16:07:27 GMT -5
Pressure Trace Artifacts CORRECTED TRACE I have recent concerns about the connection between the sensor and the cable connecting it to the box containing the firmware. I ordered a new cable and connector which arrived yesterday. The connection system has been improved since my unit was purchased. Given several recent bizarre tracings which I could not explain, I decided to change to the new connectors. While changing connections, I noticed that a small corner of the proximal end of the tape holding the newer sensor to the barrel had loosened. I decided to remove that sensor and connect instead my old sensor which is glued about 1.1 inches from the breech plug snout. For the volume of powder in the loads I am presently testing, the sensor will rest over the powder column. In addition, I secured my rifle to the Lead Sled using heavy wrap around rubber bands to minimize recoil movement and hopefully to eliminate possible recoil artifact. Repeating the test shown in the pressure trace show above gave the improved pressure trace shown below. Unfortunately, I forgot to turn on my chronograph. But velocities recorded for the previous test of this load recorded above should be close. This load seemed safe in my gun but may not be so under other conditions. This makes me wonder how long the spike artifacts have been contaminating my traces, particularly Deadeye's 110/Varget 325be load I tested on 2-11. I will probably retest that load again to be sure. Gage and Module Manufacturer = RSI USB model Trigger Sensitivity = 3, Strain Gage Voltage =4.9 Gage Factor =2.1 PSI Correction Factor: 0 Barrel Temp = 62-64 degrees F. measured at the sensor (IR). Rifle Stand: Caldwell Lead Sled Altitude: 450 ft Chronograph: Chrony Alpha Model 8 ft from muzzle. (8 fps added to all recorded velocities to correct for distance of chrony from muzzle.) Barrel Type: PacNor .45 Cal Muzzleloader Barrel OD = 1.06 in Barrel ID = .452 Breech Plug:Savage Std. (screw-in ventliner) ventliner orifice .032 in. Sensor dist fm BP=1.1in. Bullet Diam.= .458 in. Bullet Type = Barnes 195bx. Bullet weight = 195 gr. ,knurled. Sabot: Harvester Smooth Blue Powder: All Traces: N110/H322 10/68 gr. Primer :Fed 209 Shot fm dirty barrel.  |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 16, 2011 16:18:22 GMT -5
Much more inline with what I had anticipated. Does make me wonder about Deadeyes loads now.
This is much more predictable and usable info. Thank you so much for doing this for us.
Mark
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Post by shooter on Feb 16, 2011 16:38:38 GMT -5
TGinPA ,Thank you very much for all the traces it look great. |
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Post by deadeye on Feb 16, 2011 22:42:14 GMT -5
great job all,now thats a shooter with a great bullet also,best of all worlds!
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Post by ET on Feb 17, 2011 7:36:14 GMT -5
TGinPA
There were some good lessons learned for me here being an owner of an RSI Unit getting ready to use it.
Hope you don’t consider the previous traces with a developed problem a waste because a lot was revealed about the unit as well.
The learning continues and glad your perseverance does also.
Ed
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Post by edge on Feb 17, 2011 8:20:45 GMT -5
Anyone with a PT unit or thinking about getting should be aware that the connector is fairly fragile.
You should remember that a normal centerfire shooter is going to get his rifle set in the bags and not remove it until he is done shooting.
With a ML you are constantly moving the rifle for loading/ cleaning for every shot! I prefer to disconnect the cable between shots but when I first bought it I taped it firmly to the rifle for the session.
Once the connection wears you can get intermittent contact and that results in large spikes.
edge.
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Post by bteague on Feb 17, 2011 15:54:24 GMT -5
I know this maybe a dumb question.what I want to know is this.
If you input incorrect data such as bullet weight into the
Program.will you get incorrect pressure readings?Billy
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Post by shooter on Feb 17, 2011 18:01:15 GMT -5
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Post by ET on Feb 17, 2011 18:23:22 GMT -5
I know this maybe a dumb question.what I want to know is this. If you input incorrect data such as bullet weight into the Program.will you get incorrect pressure readings?Billy Bteague The strain gauge on the barrel reacts to the amount of bore pressure it senses from resulting material stretch circumferentially. In this case putting in the wrong bullet weight should not be a factor. Ed |
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Post by bteague on Feb 17, 2011 18:31:00 GMT -5
Thank ET.I am new to this pressure trace stuff.And I am just trying to understand it better.
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Post by ET on Feb 17, 2011 18:49:58 GMT -5
Thank ET.I am new to this pressure trace stuff.And I am just trying to understand it better. Nothing to thank and you're not the only one new to this. Just thankful to TGinPA for providing the traces to learn from and now Edge for conveying when a trace can be fibbing. Ed |
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Post by Savage Shooter on Feb 17, 2011 22:12:20 GMT -5
Very good thread on tracing, I knew I remembered RB going thru this with his tracing also, just could not find it. Thanks for posting link. |
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Post by TGinPA on Feb 23, 2011 14:44:41 GMT -5
Pressure Traces duplexes with 110/322 Recently developed loads using 195gr bullets with duplex loads with N110 as booster and H322 as primary have generated velocities exceeding 3000fps with pressures below 40kpsi. Today at Savage Shooter’s request, I tested several slight variations. These loads are close to pressures where one might expect to see sabot disruption. They may not work in warm weather. These loads seemed safe in my barrel under the conditions present at the time of testing but may not be under other circumstances. Gage and Module Manufacturer = RSI USB model Trigger Sensitivity = 2, Strain Gage Voltage =4.9 Gage Factor =2.1 PSI Correction Factor: 0 Barrel Temp = 62-64 degrees F. measured at the sensor (IR). Rifle Stand: Caldwell Lead Sled Altitude: 450 ft Chronograph: Chrony Alpha Model 8 ft from muzzle. (8 fps added to all recorded velocities to correct for distance of chrony from muzzle.) Barrel Type: PacNor .45 Cal Muzzleloader Barrel OD = 1.06 in Barrel ID = .452 Breech Plug:Savage Std. (screw-in ventliner) ventliner orifice .033 in. Sensor dist fm BP=1.1 in. Bullet Diam.= .458 in. 1st Panel: Bullet Type = Hornady 200sst 40 cal Bullet weight = 200 gr. ,unknurled. Sabot: Harvester Smooth Blue ~9gr. Powder: N110/H322 8/70 gr. Primer :Fed 209 2nd Panel: Bullet Type: Barnes 195bx 40 cal Bullet weight = 195gr.unknurled Sabot:Harvester Smooth Blue ~9gr. Powder N110/H322 10/70 gr. Primer:Fed 209 Shot fm dirty barrel.   |
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