TMZ/S-Fire/XTP 100/200yrd range report
Nov 29, 2009 21:40:57 GMT -5
Post by artjr338wm on Nov 29, 2009 21:40:57 GMT -5
As some of you might recall I posted a range report of both 290 grain TMZs and 245 grain Spitfires back in March. These were the made for Knight by Barnes ML bullets that many of us here bought at a close out sale at Cabelas website. The range report posted back in March, were accuracy results of strictly 100 yard 3-shot groups. The results as I recall were excellent accuracy with both the 290grn TMZs and the 245grn Spitfires.
As many reading this report who have tried to get the BOAT TAILED version of TMZs and Spitfires to shoot well out of their 10MLs are aware of (some almost painfully so) the boat tailed Barnes TMZs and Spitfire all copper ML bullets have a kind of curse that they will shoot accurately at 100 yards, but have a nasty habit of falling apart when it comes to 200 yard accuracy. I stressed the boat tailed version as I have read repeatedly the flat based Barnes all copper MLs shoot quite well out of our 10MLs.
The 100 yard 3&5 shot accuracy I achieved at three range sessions prior to my last one convinced me I no longer needed to test the Barnes 290 grn TMZs or the 245 grn Spitfires at 100 yards. I have included some pics of my 100yrd groups to show just how well these bullets can shoot at 100yrds. So at this my latest range session I shot 100% of all my groups at 200 yards.
Before I get to listing my results of my 200yrd groups I first wish to say this. As you will see by the pictures I have posted of my 200yrd groups, they are good by anyones standards. But since it is only four 200 yard groups, I feel strongly that because unlike any other ML specific bullet, the Barnes all copper bullets reputation for poor accuracy at 200 yards that I need one more session of 100% 200yrd shooting before I would recommend to anyone myself included to take my results as 100% conclusive.
To be brutally honest, and considering these are boat tailed Barnes all copper ML bullets, if I had not personally shot these 200yrd groups my self, I would have had a hard time accepting them as truthful. But I strongly feel that I shot just enough at 200yrds that I can not dismiss these groups simply as flukes.
As a side not I also included a pic of my 100yrd 3-shot group featuring .452 300/XTPs and Harvester short black sabots. I will also list that loads components as well.
Lastly I feel I might have stumbled on to something concerning getting BT Barnes ML bullets to shoot well. When I first started to shoot the BT TMZs and Spitfires, I read a post hear about how to increase the TMZs & S-fires OD by knurling them between two course dbl cut bastard files. I did this and my first batch I knurled was from a factory .450" up to .4515-.452". I shot these in the factory supplied sabot at 100 yrds and got VG good groups. But when I shot them again at a later range session I at 200yrds, I only was able to achieve OK accuracy. The only thing that had changed btwn the two range sessions was the temp, it was quite a bit warmer and the TMZs and S-fires loaded noticeably easier. I only shot five times at 200yrds at that session and stopped as I felt I needed to enlarge the TMZs and S-fires OD to get the accuracy I was seeking. I went home and knurled some TMZs and S-fires up to .4525-4535". I then thought "why not find out just how big can I knurl them up to and still get them to load. I was able to knurl my TMZs up to btwn .454-.4545". To do this required I use as much hand pressure and down force while knurling as I felt I could use without snaping the file in two. I also had to knurl them for btwn 1.5-2 minuets to obtain my desired OD.
The groups you see posted here were shot using TMZs with one of two ODs. The good groups I shot using the larger .454" TMZs. Just as a test I tried shooting two TMZs at 200yrds with a smaller OD of .451"-.452" and you can see they both resulted in poor accuracy. So for all my future shooting of TMZs and S-fires I will only use ones I knurl up to btwn .4535-.4545.
PLEASE NOTE THAT I MISLABELED SOME GROUPS AS HAVING BEEN SHOT WITH TMZs THAT MEASURED ONLY .453". That is incorrect and they all should read .454".
So the two things I did and only two things I did to get the TMZ groups I am posting here today was #1-Use harvesters new sabot for BT bullets, this was every bit as vital to my apparent success as step No2. #2-Knurled the TMZ/S-fires up to .454".
Enough of the boring stuff now to the actual purpose of this post.
<>Rifle used:
*10ML-II .50 caliber stainless steel laminated stock
<>Modifications performed by RBnAR:
*Third pillar screw installed/ Action glass bedded/Bore smoothed W-Jbs/Warne nickle scope bases mod&installed/trigger set at 3.5lbs
*Savage factory breach plug modified by RBnAR with bushing insert eliminating the need for a vent liner.
<>Scope & scope rings used:
*Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14x40mm/Warne in nickle
<>Load used for 290grn TMZs
*290grn TMZ knurled up to btwn .454-.4545"
*75 grains RL-10X
*Harvester's new for Barnes BT ML bullets Yellow CR sabot
*Federal 209A primer
<>Load used for 245grn Spitfires
*EXACT same as for 290grn TMZs except I used
76 grains of H-4198
<>Loading method used:
#1-Poor powder in funnel
#2-Tap butt of rifle firmly 2x on to concrete, use 300pg note book as padding to protect recoil pad.
#3-Place sabot/bullet in muzzle of barrel oriented to 1 land of rifling
#4-Use all brass "T" handle short starter fitted with brass crown protector/guide and Spinjag to start bullet down bore
#5-Use custom made one piece all brass T-handle range rod fitted with brass crown protector/rod guide and Spinjag to finish loading/seating bullet & sabot combo on to powder using one continues fluid motion and once seated use quite hard pressure for a 1001-3 count.
#6Place in rest, prime and fire.
<>In between shots cleaning methods:
*#1-Take 2.5" patch wet W/action cleaner using .50 cal nylon bore brush run up & down bore 1x, flip & repeat
#2-Take 2.5" dry patch using .50cal nylon bore brush run up & down bore 1x, discard.
<>Range conditions:
*Would rate over all conditions as vary good
*Temp started at 35* ended at 45*
*Wind almost none, not a factor
*Quite high humidity
*Started day W/99% clouds ended slightly sunny.
<>Second load I shot also posted here:
*300grn Hornady .452" XTP
*64 grains IMR-4198
*Harvester Short Black Sabot
*Federal 209A
Loading method and I.b.s.c.m same as for all other loads.
As you can see by reading what I listed on each individual targets these are some good groups well with in anyones standards for use in hunting deer sized or larger game. I also included some targets of previous range sessions to serve as additional proof of this load producing consistent 100yrd accuracy.
As I said previously in this post I do not want anyone reading this to think my results at 200yrds is 100% conclusive as I feel it is not. Excellent, but not conclusive. I feel one more range session of at least five 200yrd 3-shot groups (for a total of over ten) will be necessary for me to have complete confidence in TMZs and S-fires as 200yrd loads.
I also found out from my last two range sessions that my 10ML-IIs breach plug does not appear to have a fouling sweat spot. My accuracy was excellent from the first 100yrd 3-shot group fired with a 100% clean breach plug as it was with my last 200yrd 3-shot group fired after taking almost 30 total shots using the same never cleaned between sessions breach plug. Thats good to know.
I committed only one error as will be listed on my last 200 yard target that I will post here. I neglected to pack enough pre-weighed charges of RL-10X. I had intended to bring 30 pre-weighed charges, when in fact I had only packed 15, hence the lack of powder necessary to do a complete 200yrd evaluation.
I will post my findings as soon as I compleat one more 200yrd range session.
Anyone who has any questions please feel free to ask. I looking to be helpfull, not for compliments on my groups.
Be well,
Arthur.
Unfortunately only four pics posted using the pic posting thigy here at Doug's and p-bucet. I will have to try to post the other pics in a second posting
Arthur.
As many reading this report who have tried to get the BOAT TAILED version of TMZs and Spitfires to shoot well out of their 10MLs are aware of (some almost painfully so) the boat tailed Barnes TMZs and Spitfire all copper ML bullets have a kind of curse that they will shoot accurately at 100 yards, but have a nasty habit of falling apart when it comes to 200 yard accuracy. I stressed the boat tailed version as I have read repeatedly the flat based Barnes all copper MLs shoot quite well out of our 10MLs.
The 100 yard 3&5 shot accuracy I achieved at three range sessions prior to my last one convinced me I no longer needed to test the Barnes 290 grn TMZs or the 245 grn Spitfires at 100 yards. I have included some pics of my 100yrd groups to show just how well these bullets can shoot at 100yrds. So at this my latest range session I shot 100% of all my groups at 200 yards.
Before I get to listing my results of my 200yrd groups I first wish to say this. As you will see by the pictures I have posted of my 200yrd groups, they are good by anyones standards. But since it is only four 200 yard groups, I feel strongly that because unlike any other ML specific bullet, the Barnes all copper bullets reputation for poor accuracy at 200 yards that I need one more session of 100% 200yrd shooting before I would recommend to anyone myself included to take my results as 100% conclusive.
To be brutally honest, and considering these are boat tailed Barnes all copper ML bullets, if I had not personally shot these 200yrd groups my self, I would have had a hard time accepting them as truthful. But I strongly feel that I shot just enough at 200yrds that I can not dismiss these groups simply as flukes.
As a side not I also included a pic of my 100yrd 3-shot group featuring .452 300/XTPs and Harvester short black sabots. I will also list that loads components as well.
Lastly I feel I might have stumbled on to something concerning getting BT Barnes ML bullets to shoot well. When I first started to shoot the BT TMZs and Spitfires, I read a post hear about how to increase the TMZs & S-fires OD by knurling them between two course dbl cut bastard files. I did this and my first batch I knurled was from a factory .450" up to .4515-.452". I shot these in the factory supplied sabot at 100 yrds and got VG good groups. But when I shot them again at a later range session I at 200yrds, I only was able to achieve OK accuracy. The only thing that had changed btwn the two range sessions was the temp, it was quite a bit warmer and the TMZs and S-fires loaded noticeably easier. I only shot five times at 200yrds at that session and stopped as I felt I needed to enlarge the TMZs and S-fires OD to get the accuracy I was seeking. I went home and knurled some TMZs and S-fires up to .4525-4535". I then thought "why not find out just how big can I knurl them up to and still get them to load. I was able to knurl my TMZs up to btwn .454-.4545". To do this required I use as much hand pressure and down force while knurling as I felt I could use without snaping the file in two. I also had to knurl them for btwn 1.5-2 minuets to obtain my desired OD.
The groups you see posted here were shot using TMZs with one of two ODs. The good groups I shot using the larger .454" TMZs. Just as a test I tried shooting two TMZs at 200yrds with a smaller OD of .451"-.452" and you can see they both resulted in poor accuracy. So for all my future shooting of TMZs and S-fires I will only use ones I knurl up to btwn .4535-.4545.
PLEASE NOTE THAT I MISLABELED SOME GROUPS AS HAVING BEEN SHOT WITH TMZs THAT MEASURED ONLY .453". That is incorrect and they all should read .454".
So the two things I did and only two things I did to get the TMZ groups I am posting here today was #1-Use harvesters new sabot for BT bullets, this was every bit as vital to my apparent success as step No2. #2-Knurled the TMZ/S-fires up to .454".
Enough of the boring stuff now to the actual purpose of this post.
<>Rifle used:
*10ML-II .50 caliber stainless steel laminated stock
<>Modifications performed by RBnAR:
*Third pillar screw installed/ Action glass bedded/Bore smoothed W-Jbs/Warne nickle scope bases mod&installed/trigger set at 3.5lbs
*Savage factory breach plug modified by RBnAR with bushing insert eliminating the need for a vent liner.
<>Scope & scope rings used:
*Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14x40mm/Warne in nickle
<>Load used for 290grn TMZs
*290grn TMZ knurled up to btwn .454-.4545"
*75 grains RL-10X
*Harvester's new for Barnes BT ML bullets Yellow CR sabot
*Federal 209A primer
<>Load used for 245grn Spitfires
*EXACT same as for 290grn TMZs except I used
76 grains of H-4198
<>Loading method used:
#1-Poor powder in funnel
#2-Tap butt of rifle firmly 2x on to concrete, use 300pg note book as padding to protect recoil pad.
#3-Place sabot/bullet in muzzle of barrel oriented to 1 land of rifling
#4-Use all brass "T" handle short starter fitted with brass crown protector/guide and Spinjag to start bullet down bore
#5-Use custom made one piece all brass T-handle range rod fitted with brass crown protector/rod guide and Spinjag to finish loading/seating bullet & sabot combo on to powder using one continues fluid motion and once seated use quite hard pressure for a 1001-3 count.
#6Place in rest, prime and fire.
<>In between shots cleaning methods:
*#1-Take 2.5" patch wet W/action cleaner using .50 cal nylon bore brush run up & down bore 1x, flip & repeat
#2-Take 2.5" dry patch using .50cal nylon bore brush run up & down bore 1x, discard.
<>Range conditions:
*Would rate over all conditions as vary good
*Temp started at 35* ended at 45*
*Wind almost none, not a factor
*Quite high humidity
*Started day W/99% clouds ended slightly sunny.
<>Second load I shot also posted here:
*300grn Hornady .452" XTP
*64 grains IMR-4198
*Harvester Short Black Sabot
*Federal 209A
Loading method and I.b.s.c.m same as for all other loads.
As you can see by reading what I listed on each individual targets these are some good groups well with in anyones standards for use in hunting deer sized or larger game. I also included some targets of previous range sessions to serve as additional proof of this load producing consistent 100yrd accuracy.
As I said previously in this post I do not want anyone reading this to think my results at 200yrds is 100% conclusive as I feel it is not. Excellent, but not conclusive. I feel one more range session of at least five 200yrd 3-shot groups (for a total of over ten) will be necessary for me to have complete confidence in TMZs and S-fires as 200yrd loads.
I also found out from my last two range sessions that my 10ML-IIs breach plug does not appear to have a fouling sweat spot. My accuracy was excellent from the first 100yrd 3-shot group fired with a 100% clean breach plug as it was with my last 200yrd 3-shot group fired after taking almost 30 total shots using the same never cleaned between sessions breach plug. Thats good to know.
I committed only one error as will be listed on my last 200 yard target that I will post here. I neglected to pack enough pre-weighed charges of RL-10X. I had intended to bring 30 pre-weighed charges, when in fact I had only packed 15, hence the lack of powder necessary to do a complete 200yrd evaluation.
I will post my findings as soon as I compleat one more 200yrd range session.
Anyone who has any questions please feel free to ask. I looking to be helpfull, not for compliments on my groups.
Be well,
Arthur.
Unfortunately only four pics posted using the pic posting thigy here at Doug's and p-bucet. I will have to try to post the other pics in a second posting
Arthur.
