|
|
Post by nick0007 on Oct 6, 2009 13:45:32 GMT -5
Just got my Savage ML BP from Cabelas. Went to the range and loaded up with 42 gr. VV-N 110 smokeless powder. Was using a Hornady 250 gr. SST with red quick load sabot that came with the bullet. It loaded real easy. Put in Win. 209 Primer. When I pulled the trigger all I got was a little poof! Bullet went out about 6 ft. and landed on the ground. A lot of soot and unburned power in the barrel. Did this three times with same result. Then I loaded with 150Gr. of Pyrodex pellets and shot consistent groups of 1 in. at 100 yds. Whats going on here? Its my guess the sabot that came with the SST"s fits too loose to get good ignition. Can anyone confirm this? New to the Savage Smokeless, seems to be a well made gun. Thanks, Nick
|
|
|
|
Post by lwh723 on Oct 6, 2009 13:48:43 GMT -5
I would say the loose fit is definitely the culprit. Also, the Winchester primers aren't very hot. A CCI 209M or Fed 209A may have been able to overcome the loose fit and at least get you ignition, but to get any accuracy (with smokeless), you'll likely need to tigthen up that sabot fit.
|
|
|
|
Post by shooter on Oct 6, 2009 14:06:37 GMT -5
Just got my Savage ML BP from Cabelas. Went to the range and loaded up with 42 gr. VV-N 110 smokeless powder. Was using a Hornady 250 gr. SST with red quick load sabot that came with the bullet. It loaded real easy. Put in Win. 209 Primer. When I pulled the trigger all I got was a little poof! Bullet went out about 6 ft. and landed on the ground. A lot of soot and unburned power in the barrel. Did this three times with same result. Then I loaded with 150Gr. of Pyrodex pellets and shot consistent groups of 1 in. at 100 yds. Whats going on here? Its my guess the sabot that came with the SST"s fits too loose to get good ignition. Can anyone confirm this? New to the Savage Smokeless, seems to be a well made gun. Thanks, Nick I would try a red crush rib here is the to Harvester link. www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=48&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3&vmcchk=1&Itemid=3could also try these mmp sabot here a link. www.mmpsabots.com/#The one you need are at the bottom of the page and they are black hph12. I would say if the hph12 are to tight try the hph24. Hope this help |
|
esmd
8 Pointer
Bill Drain
Posts: 109
|
Post by esmd on Oct 6, 2009 15:04:11 GMT -5
Definitely, loose sabot fit is the culprit. Change your sabot to a Harvestor Red Crush Rib, MMP HPH-12, or MMP HPH-24, and she'll go bang every time. I shoot Win 209 primers, and they're fine, but CCI's or Federal's would also be fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rifleman on Oct 6, 2009 16:06:09 GMT -5
Also make sure to seat that bullet hard. Smokeless needs back pressure.
|
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Oct 6, 2009 17:27:44 GMT -5
What size is the vent? I wonder if they put a larger vent in it for BP/BP subs.
You have to have a tighter fit for smokeless. Try HPH-12s or RCRs
|
|
|
|
Post by rbinar on Oct 6, 2009 19:50:47 GMT -5
8-)A very loose fitting sabot is likely a misfire shooting smokeless. If you shoot AA 5744 it will ignite but even then it's likely not accurate.
Get the sabot recommended for shooting in the smokeless loads manual and things will shoot as normal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Oct 6, 2009 20:10:52 GMT -5
I would defiantly look into what Rossman said at least for others if they changed the vent size It could cause problems. From what you say it sounds like sabot fit. But for peace of mind for your self any one that does the same thing it could be a big help.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by KerryB on Oct 6, 2009 21:12:08 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be something if Cabelas had specified that Savage build these BP rifles with a loose enough bore that they wouldn't fire with smokeless powder? It wouldn't take much oversize to make them mis-fire with smokeless, but still ignite with BP subs. I am sure Savage knows where the line is............  Nah! I'm just tired and my mind is playing tricks on me. Cabelas or Savage neither one are slick enough to pull that little trick off!  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by chuck41 on Oct 6, 2009 21:39:03 GMT -5
It the fit ain't tight it won't shoot rite.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick0007 on Oct 6, 2009 21:58:56 GMT -5
A .025 piece of wire just fits in the vent hole, and its a real snug fit. So I would assume the problem is the loose sabot. By the way the gun didnt come with any Sabots but came with a set of rings and bases. A free gun case for it is on the way. Got it for the internet sale price of $599 plus got thirty bucks rebate off of that. Thanks for all the feed back fellow gun owners. The HPH 12"s are on the way and will let you know if that works when I get to shoot it again.
|
|
|
|
Post by minst7877 on Oct 6, 2009 22:12:15 GMT -5
The standard vent on the ML II is .031 You might want to change out the vent along with a tighter sabot and you should be fine.
DC
|
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Oct 7, 2009 5:22:41 GMT -5
That makes sense, the easiest ways to make it appear not to suit smokeless would be to restrict the amount of ignition. Now add in a loose fitting sabot. That would make it prone to failure and all they had to do would make a relatively cheap vent that would restrict ignition. Then specify a weak primer or b/p primer and their bases are covered. Lets face it the average new buyer with out help would not figure it out.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by edge on Oct 7, 2009 7:50:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by bigmoose on Oct 7, 2009 8:41:44 GMT -5
Has anyone use the Cabelas model successfully with smokless?
Nick00007,
The stock on your rifle, is it different from the first one Savage was selling?
|
|
|
|
Post by reloader on Oct 7, 2009 9:25:18 GMT -5
It the fit ain't tight it won't shoot rite. Ditto Buy the SSTs that come with the supplied black HPH12 sabots. It will go bang then  good luck Reloader |
|
|
|
Post by nick0007 on Oct 7, 2009 9:47:10 GMT -5
Yes the stock is the new model synthetic camo with a real good recoil pad, the newer ram rod thimble but has only one screw. It's supposed to have the dual pillar bedding but I havent haven't removed the stock yet to see.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigmoose on Oct 7, 2009 10:08:39 GMT -5
Than you are happy with the stock, the first one they put out was terrible, I bought one and got rid of it fast.
Good Luck with you new rifle, the posts, should get you shooting in no time, Look foward to your smokeless reports.
|
|
|
|
Post by minst7877 on Oct 7, 2009 10:32:07 GMT -5
It the fit ain't tight it won't shoot rite. Ditto Buy the SSTs that come with the supplied black HPH12 sabots. It will go bang then good luck Reloader The SST's last I knew were supplied with the HPH 24 sabot DC |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Oct 7, 2009 20:11:44 GMT -5
nick........like I mentioned in another thread, you should need two hands to push the bullet/sabot down the barrel. If not, it is too loose. Remember, black powder "explodes or flagrates" so it will push anything out the bore. Smokeless powder "burns" and needs back pressure to do so!
Richard
|
|
|
|
Post by got2hunt on Oct 7, 2009 21:31:13 GMT -5
nick did you get it shooting smokeless? I am wanting to buy one of these guns this week 10-07-09 and need to know if I can use the Cabela's version or if I need to get it from another dealer.
|
|
|
|
Post by got2hunt on Oct 7, 2009 21:35:09 GMT -5
I also wondered if you think the stock is weak? I know that was a problem out of last years modle. My friend said he could wiggle his with his bare hands.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick0007 on Oct 8, 2009 23:04:10 GMT -5
In answer to your questions, I am waiting for the HPH 12 sabots to come in. When they do I will try it smokeless. As far as the stock is concerned I fired about a dozen 150 gr. pyrodex with a 250 gr. bullet and nothing broke, I cant wiggle it with my hand either. The sabos I used were the quick glide ones, they easily pushed in with one hand so I am asuming wth tighter sabots, having to use two hands to push them down the barrel it will work.
|
|
|
|
Post by boarhog on Oct 9, 2009 0:25:17 GMT -5
I am finding it hard to understand why anyone would buy the Cabelas version, unless the price was considerably less than the smokeless model? I paid $544 plus freight for my stainless ML10-2 from Natchez Shooters Supply. I can't say the price is the same now, but why worry about the possible consequences of performance difficulties and warranty doubts, if you can get the smokeless approved version for anything near the same price?  This is especially a questionable way to go if you intend to use smokeless powder in the first place. |
|
|
|
Post by bigmoose on Oct 9, 2009 8:12:19 GMT -5
Why buy one.......A longer barrel, higher velocity, a new improved stock, a real recoil pad.
I guess that might be three reasons to buy one.
Ples some folks beleive "He who die's with the most toys wins"
|
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Oct 9, 2009 9:03:57 GMT -5
Then there is more differences, The 4.440" action screw spacing which would make switching stocks a bit tougher. Plus the large shank barrel threads which would eliminate swapping/switching to the standard 10ML-II barrel. Large shank, small shank differences below,  To me this is a good thing and have even thought about having my 10ML-II action recut for the larger threads if I was to rebarrel with a Pacnor. This would give you almost another 1/8" in barrel diameter if you contoured it right. |
|
|
|
Post by bigmoose on Oct 9, 2009 9:48:29 GMT -5
Rossman
I take it you know folks that have and shoot the Cabelas rifle, did they use smokeless.?
To most folks I'm sure it would not make sense, for Savage to make a weaker model.....your opinion?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Oct 9, 2009 10:11:38 GMT -5
I haven't talked to that many people that has bought one (or at least admitted to it). Nick is the first person that has posted on this board with one and I haven't seen any others on the boards I frequently visit. Even RW hasn't posted much on it. Myself and others are wanting to hear more from Nick. Last resort we could always go kidnap Nick and his gun and put it thru our own testing and evaluation (T&E).
|
|
|
|
Post by rangeball on Oct 9, 2009 10:24:32 GMT -5
Isn't the new hex head BP on these cabelas guns interchangeable with the 10MLII?
Isn't the barrel steel the same? Wouldn't the large shank barrel threads give them more strength?
If it was possible, it'd be interesting to see if nick could measure the flash and vent hole diameter on his BP to see how it compares. If it's the same as the 10MLII BPs, most likely it was the loose fit causing the miss-fires, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by edge on Oct 9, 2009 10:30:33 GMT -5
SNIP Last resort we could always go kidnap Nick and his gun and put it thru our own testing and evaluation (T&E). Herman are you listening, rossman40 has a job for you ;D ;D edge. |
|
Nah! I'm just tired and my mind is playing tricks on me. Cabelas or Savage neither one are slick enough to pull that little trick off! 
;D 
This is especially a questionable way to go if you intend to use smokeless powder in the first place. 