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Post by triggerman71 on Jan 1, 2012 18:13:51 GMT -5
Just picked up a T/C Thunder Hawk .50 in line on gunbroker got a good deal(i think) 100.00 shipped with a half box of XTP Sabots and a tin of caps. MY 17 year old nephew wants to go deer hunting, going to take him during muzzle loader season (Ohio) gun season gets too crazy around here. I wanted to have him shoot it as much as possible, if we,re just out plinkin or killin paper can I shoot balls or something cheaper than .44 XTP Sabots ? Thanks Tom Attachments:
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 2, 2012 1:21:25 GMT -5
Triggerman, First welcome aboard! Secondly I am going to move your question to the tradidtional muzzeloading forum where it will recieve more attention... The thunder hawk is a inline. |
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 2, 2012 1:32:04 GMT -5
The thunder hawk was a bit of a commercial flop for TC. It was a pretty decent Ml but was way overshadowed by the better made and more impressive BK Knights. You got a pretty fair price for it and it should serve you well.
Finding a verity of scope mounts for it was allays a pain and they were temperamental about loads.The take down procedure had the bolt coming out in several small to medium size parts where the knight came out in one solid piece. The knight trigger was wonderfully crisp while the TC took a bit of work to get them up to a satisfactory level of performance. The bolt slash safety was slow and noisy compared to the quite and sleek Knight.
It did have a preference for 44 cal sabots with the green sabots. It also liked the buffalo bullet 375 gr sabots. That much I remember. I tried some conicals in mine once and they shot minute of barn. I think with that barrel it's not going to like balls really well either.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 2, 2012 6:48:51 GMT -5
I love my .54 thunderhawk...one guy at camp has the .50 too.
Both our guns shoot great. The down fall is a 100 gr powder charge limit in the .50 (120 in the .54) and a 1:38 twist in both guns. The trigger is not perfect but not bad either. It carries well because it is very light.
However, stick with stubby, short pistol bullets in a tight sabot and you may be surprised how accurate the gun is. For 150 yds or less, it will print outstanding groups but then gravity kicks in big time. I'm talking 240 XTP .429 as the largest you should go. The light pistol bullets will be exactly where they need to be for speed as you will be getting .44 mag revolver type speeds with .240 gr bullets for instance....XTP's won't come apart and will usually be found under the hide on the off side. The bolt issue is minor, and I actually find that the Knight Disc is more of a pain then the TC Thunderhawk. That little wrench for the knight is not meant to be user friendly for 1st timers...IMO.
There is no breech plug as we know it. The only thing between the bolt and the charge is a nipple. I recommend getting the musket nipple and replacing the #11 nipple.
And yes, this gun is an inline Ed....
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Post by tar12 on Jan 2, 2012 6:55:25 GMT -5
Oooops! Just trying to help the guy out... ;D
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 2, 2012 8:14:00 GMT -5
I love my .54 thunderhawk...one guy at camp has the .50 too. Both our guns shoot great. The down fall is a 100 gr powder charge limit in the .50 (120 in the .54) and a 1:38 twist in both guns. The trigger is not perfect but not bad either. It carries well because it is very light. However, stick with stubby, short pistol bullets in a tight sabot and you may be surprised how accurate the gun is. For 150 yds or less, it will print outstanding groups but then gravity kicks in big time. I'm talking 240 XTP .429 as the largest you should go. The light pistol bullets will be exactly where they need to be for speed as you will be getting .44 mag revolver type speeds with .240 gr bullets for instance....XTP's won't come apart and will usually be found under the hide on the off side. The bolt issue is minor, and I actually find that the Knight Disc is more of a pain then the TC Thunderhawk. That little wrench for the knight is not meant to be user friendly for 1st timers...IMO. There is no breech plug as we know it. The only thing between the bolt and the charge is a nipple. I recommend getting the musket nipple and replacing the #11 nipple. And yes, this gun is an inline Ed.... I never caree much for the knight disk rifles. Overly complicated and way too heavy for what it was. My plunger knights will do anything they will do. |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 2, 2012 8:18:44 GMT -5
If my Knight wasn't the tack driver it is, I wouldn't much care for it either. However, This disc rifle is the most accurate ML I own...hands down more consistent then my Savage IME.
All the ML's I own will never miss deer, but the Knight will be the target shooting champion of them all
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 2, 2012 8:30:13 GMT -5
If my Knight wasn't the tack driver it is, I wouldn't much care for it either. However, This disc rifle is the most accurate ML I own...hands down more consistent then my Savage IME. All the ML's I own will never miss deer, but the Knight will be the target shooting champion of them all No doubt about it. Knight rifles rather it be a plunger gun or bolt gun are winners hands down, I attribute that to them sticking with green mountain barrels. |
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 2, 2012 12:04:30 GMT -5
If my Knight wasn't the tack driver it is, I wouldn't much care for it either. However, This disc rifle is the most accurate ML I own...hands down more consistent then my Savage IME. All the ML's I own will never miss deer, but the Knight will be the target shooting champion of them all What load do you shot in the 50 Knight that is a tack driver? Mike |
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 2, 2012 12:52:59 GMT -5
If my Knight wasn't the tack driver it is, I wouldn't much care for it either. However, This disc rifle is the most accurate ML I own...hands down more consistent then my Savage IME. All the ML's I own will never miss deer, but the Knight will be the target shooting champion of them all What load do you shot in the 50 Knight that is a tack driver? Mike I can't speak for Mikes groups but I own several of the BK and LK Knights. All of them have the Timney trigger on them. None of them have been temperamental. All of them will shoot any load you want to feed it inch and half all day at 100 yards. I have found some pet loads in a couple of them that shoot under the one inch mark. I turned in a .610 group one time with my BK. It was 100 GR FFG Pyrodex and the 250 GR XTP with MMP Short Sabot. It has taken a couple of dozen or so deer over the years. One of which was a 156 class whitetail. I have another BK that loves heavy stuff. It shoots the Buffalo Bullet Sabot 375 Gr with 100 GR of Pyrodex routinely under 1 inch at 100. A buddy of mine bought one of the Long Range Hunters in .45 cal a few years back against my better judgement. We tried several combinations of loads, sabots and primers in it. I tweaked the bedding and did a few other things to it to try and turn it into a shooter but the best thing we could do with it was right over a inch at 100. I must admit the trigger on the bolt handel Knight ML's have less travel in them than the plunger bolts do which I would have thought would have added to the accuracy. Maybe he just got a dud or maybe his expectations were higher. Either way you can't complain about a ML that shoots just over a inch. There are far worse ones out there. |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 5, 2012 5:59:23 GMT -5
Mike3132,
For my disc, the latest load is the 325 FTX with 90 gr weighed of Blackhorn 209. It's sub MOA every time. Discovered this last year when all the inline guys that don't have a Savage at camp switched to this powder and bullet. I was setting up my gun for another guy to use and my first 3 shots were a ragged hole. I dialed the scope to try and move it so I was 2" high at 100 and cut another 3 shot ragged hole right where I wanted it.
The guy took this gun out and killed a few deer in ML season with it (both chip shots). This year I took it out of the safe to get it ready for the same guy and loaded it and was right where I left it last year. Same guy killed 2 more deer this year...one at 170 yds and one at 140 yds....10 hole'ed both of them.
This load is going 2,200 fps +/- and breathing right down a Savage's throat.
Other great loads:
250 MZ with 150 gr FFG Goex
300 gr XTP (452) with 140 gr FFG Goex
245 gr Spitfire with 150 gr FFG Goex
250 Nosler PT with 150 gr FFFg (yes, triple) - this load does 1,950
One thing that helps is the trigger is also one of the best I have....and it came on the gun. I must have got lucky cause I bought this gun in a "group buy" where we bought 4 of them. The other guns have OK triggers but mine is by far the best....even after everyone played around with theirs trying to make it like mine.
One thing I will do is get rid of the stock one day cause it has way too much drop in the rear....hard to get into good position on the bench. I've hesitated doing this because the gun shoots so well like it is and I don't really want to change anything.
Also, with the BH209 I just load and shoot...no cleaning between shots. With Goex, I have a totally different routine due to the filthy nature of real black powder.
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 5, 2012 11:18:56 GMT -5
Mike3132, For my disc, the latest load is the 325 FTX with 90 gr weighed of Blackhorn 209. It's sub MOA every time. Discovered this last year when all the inline guys that don't have a Savage at camp switched to this powder and bullet. I was setting up my gun for another guy to use and my first 3 shots were a ragged hole. I dialed the scope to try and move it so I was 2" high at 100 and cut another 3 shot ragged hole right where I wanted it. The guy took this gun out and killed a few deer in ML season with it (both chip shots). This year I took it out of the safe to get it ready for the same guy and loaded it and was right where I left it last year. Same guy killed 2 more deer this year...one at 170 yds and one at 140 yds....10 hole'ed both of them. This load is going 2,200 fps +/- and breathing right down a Savage's throat. Other great loads: 250 MZ with 150 gr FFG Goex 300 gr XTP (452) with 140 gr FFG Goex 245 gr Spitfire with 150 gr FFG Goex 250 Nosler PT with 150 gr FFFg (yes, triple) - this load does 1,950 One thing that helps is the trigger is also one of the best I have....and it came on the gun. I must have got lucky cause I bought this gun in a "group buy" where we bought 4 of them. The other guns have OK triggers but mine is by far the best....even after everyone played around with theirs trying to make it like mine. One thing I will do is get rid of the stock one day cause it has way too much drop in the rear....hard to get into good position on the bench. I've hesitated doing this because the gun shoots so well like it is and I don't really want to change anything. Also, with the BH209 I just load and shoot...no cleaning between shots. With Goex, I have a totally different routine due to the filthy nature of real black powder. I just switched to BH209 myself in my Knights but not getting that kind of accuracy. My BK Knight went from shooting under a inch to just over a inch with the stuff. My load was 100 GR with 250 XTP and MMP SS. I ordered some 325 FTX to try out but they have not come in yet. What Sabot are you using with your rig? |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Jan 5, 2012 12:02:18 GMT -5
black crush rib
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 5, 2012 12:05:38 GMT -5
Im using 90gr by weight of BH209 also but in the Knight 52cal LRH. Its a thumper for sure and as you said, its right up there with the smokeless loads i use in my Savage with the 325gr FTX. Kicks a bit harder though.  triggerman71I also had a Thunderhawk but mine was a 54cal. Great brush gun IMO but i would avoid all the Flame Thrower nipples and the 209 conversion. Blowby gets out of hand using them and the 209 version is borderline dangerous IMO. Nearly every 209 i tried came apart unless the load was greatly reduced. |
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 5, 2012 13:08:37 GMT -5
Thanks man. I have some of those on the way and was planning on trying them out. |
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Post by davewolf on Jan 5, 2012 14:01:12 GMT -5
I don't think you can go wrong with the black crushed rib sabot from Harvester, they brought MOA shots from my T/C Triumph the first time I used them!
Have a great day!
Dave
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 6, 2012 5:38:22 GMT -5
edwardmason,
What load did you have that shoot under inch in the BK? Reason Im asking is a friend has a BK and its never really shot consistent groups. Thanks, Mike
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 6, 2012 11:14:51 GMT -5
Two loads thatreally work under a inch for me. 250 xtp 100 gr pyrodex ffg and mmp black sabot. The other is 375 gr buffalo bullet with supplied sabot and 100 gr pyrodex ffg . Works well in most of my other knights too. I think he will have a hard time finding the buffalo sabots as they are out of business. I have a lifetime supply.  |
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 6, 2012 11:47:05 GMT -5
His BK still uses #11 caps did you change yours to 209? Mike
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Post by edwardamason on Jan 6, 2012 13:45:15 GMT -5
His BK still uses #11 caps did you change yours to 209? Mike I own 9 Knights. All plunger models. All of them will shoot 1 inch 1/2 groups all day where most of them will shoot close to a inch. Two of them are exceptional shooters. My BK and a LK shoot under a inch. I turned in a group that was .610 one time with the BK. I use bore butter. I know all the horror stories out there but been using it since it was developed and never had any of the issues that some of the other people have with it. I use it on all my breech plugs as anti seize and never had a seizure issue with it. Never had a contamination issue with it either. I am religious about cleaning and swabbing between shots is probably the reason it works so well for me. Yes I changed mine to 209. My kit is no longer being offered and I think it is the best of the 209 kits out there. Mine takes a special tool to remove the primer and is not held in place by any plastic wafer or anything. Primer just goes into the recess area of the breech plug and is held in by friction. Ive never had a primer back out on me as it takes a little bit of finger pressure to get them seated. I never liked carrying the tool so I always used my clip knife that is always on me when in the field. Works like a charm. A little trick I use on mine is to put a dab of the bore butter on the trigger assembly. It seems to reduce the friction between the trigger and the plunger and makes for a really smooth trigger pull. |
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Post by underclocked on Jan 6, 2012 22:34:06 GMT -5
"if we,re just out plinkin or killin paper can I shoot balls or something cheaper than .44 XTP Sabots"
Triggerman71,
You should certainly be able to achieve reasonable accuracy with patched round balls of the right size so long as you keep powder charges on the light side. Most inlines will do fairly well with PRBs if not pushed too hard.
You should also look at buying sabots in the 50 packs and your bullets in bulk for handgun reloading. Take a look at Graf's onliine for some good prices on both.
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Post by bubbinator on Dec 7, 2012 1:56:25 GMT -5
BassPro Shop sells inexpensive 240gr LHPs with sabots billed as practice bullets for sighting in and such for $9.99 per 20. Called Plinkers. New to the sport, I don't know if your rifle is an inline(like mine) or will shoot balls with a slow twist. If it is an fast twist-the plickers are the way to go.
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