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Post by Richard on Sept 15, 2009 18:00:39 GMT -5
Herman had to go bow hunting so it was just Bill and I today. Missed you Today was probably about the nicest day we have had in a long time for shooting. It was just overcast but not completely cloudy. The temperature started out at 66* around 7:30 a.m. and only got up to maybe....78 with no wind until about noon when we were packing up. For those new on the board, I shooting a Savage with a 23" Pac-Nor .45 cal barrel. My custom stocked laminated thumbhole weights in at 13 lbs with 6.5 x 20 Leupold scope and Rifle Basix trigger. I use a cool rod in between shots to keep barrel head in check. I also do a minimal clean between shots to try to keep bore condition very similar shot to shot. The first load was used for targets #1,2 and 3 which were shot at 100, 200 and 300 yards and consisted of five shots each. I am tweaking a load that is creeping up on 3,000 fps with a 200 gr. Hornady SST and a Blue Harvester sabot. (did not blow any sabots today) The load is 15 gr. of N-110 under 57 gr. of N-130. On the first target at 100 yards, the first shot came in at 2899 from a barrel that had been JB'd at home and super clean. As my shots progressed, the velocity went up to 2969 and then leveled off. A three shot .415"/ 5 shot 1.629 group was obtained at 4" + I next moved to the 200 yard target where the initial velocities were lower but came up as high as 2971. Four shots were almost MOA with the fifth out to make it a 3.718" five shot group. Note: this group was also 4" + using my original 100 yd. POA (center crosshairs) Now out to 300 where the velocities seemed to settle in the 2931 fps range with a low 16 fps ES. Again, I used the center crosshair and the five shot 3.033" group was only 4" low. This is a load that will stay within eight inches from zero to three hundred yards I think 3,000 fps is definitely doable with a little more tweaking. Obviously from the decent accuracy, the sabots are not being stressed. A credit to keeping the barrel from getting warm. Four other 100 yard targets were shot with various bullets and charges with mixed results. All were still capable of taking game out to 200 yards or so. Richard
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Post by rbinar on Sept 15, 2009 18:45:15 GMT -5
8-)It's just like I said last time: 5 shots into 3.3" at 300 yards at 2900+fps. Ahhh that thing will never work, don't it just make you want to go back to 50 caliber?
Though you are so close to 3000fps I would hardly worry about a speed increase you should be able to get there with the same two powders. I think you are shooting either 72 or 74 grains total now (sorry can't see em like I used to). Raising the total by 5 grains should supply the extra 90 to 110fps.
The trick would be in finding the proportion. You might get by by adding 5 grains of primary but unlikely. More likely you'll have to add something like 8 grains of primary and drop 3 grains of booster. Of course the only way to know for sure is too shoot.
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Post by Richard on Sept 15, 2009 18:55:55 GMT -5
RB........I guess you can tell I really want to get back to that .50 So pressure wise you think I am still in the "safe" zone? I was probably going to go up one and one on both the booster and main charge? Man, I love how flat that thing shoots It makes ballistic plex and stadia line scopes about obsolete ;D Just one crosshair! Unless you really want to stretch it out. Thanks Richard
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Post by boarhog on Sept 15, 2009 19:04:01 GMT -5
Richard, Great shooting!! I can't wait for a nice day here! It has been raining since Friday night, and they say it is likely to continue almost all week! Got my fingers crossed for a chance to shoot next weekend.
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Post by DBinNY on Sept 15, 2009 19:52:13 GMT -5
"Wow" pretty well sums it up. Have you settled on the VV powders or do you plan on visiting this neighborhood with 5744/H322 as well?
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Post by rbinar on Sept 16, 2009 2:12:00 GMT -5
RB........I guess you can tell I really want to get back to that .50 So pressure wise you think I am still in the "safe" zone? I was probably going to go up one and one on both the booster and main charge? Man, I love how flat that thing shoots It makes ballistic plex and stadia line scopes about obsolete ;D Just one crosshair! Unless you really want to stretch it out. Thanks Richard If you are shooting bare sabot (without a sub-base) then I can't see how the pressure would be extreme. Though you are shooting faster than I normally shoot I've been over 2800fps with straight AA 2015 so I likewise think 3000fps not far away. The key is to shoot more powder but stay at the same pressure. That would require a slightly over all slower burning rate. If you add more booster (any more) without taking out a lot of primary then the over all speed will be faster and the pressure would be higher. The combination dictates the powder burning speed but the booster has a much greater (and quicker acting) effect. That said would you not say if I added any powder (primary or booster) the pressure would be higher? I'd think so. However If I added 7 grains of primary but subtracted 2 grains of booster what would the pressure be? It may be the same or even very slightly higher but because the booster has a quicker effect when changed it is more likely to be the same or less. So the great thing about duplex is theoretically we should be able to shoot a 77 grain load to the exact pressure of your 72 grain load. It's just a matter of finding the correct ratio. Since you are at 15/57 now it seems to me the same pressure would be had at about 13/64 or 12/65. The exact value would have to be derived by experiment but if you are shooting bare sabots that survive now I'm sure they will likewise survive at near these levels. Once a person completely understands a duplex it becomes evident that any amount of powder can be shot at near any pressure, IF the choice of powders fit into the performance criterion of the caliber and pressure limits.
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Post by Richard on Sept 16, 2009 19:03:23 GMT -5
RB.......Thank you very much for your analysis. I will be playing with it this coming week. Maybe a grain or two less just to see the effects. Maybe something like 14/60. I am afraid that going up with the main charge and my 23" barrel, that I might not have enough length to burn it? DBinNY....No, I am not completely settling on 110 and 130 but so far for me, they have worked exceedingly well. I am almost forced to use slightly faster powders due to the short barrel. I am also almost forced to find loads for H-322 since I recently bought and eight pounder at a wholesale price. N-130 is running around $57 for a #2 with tax Richard
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Post by herman on Sept 17, 2009 6:12:33 GMT -5
Will be ready to shoot the 45 tuesday,ran over to the range last thursday and zeroed the scope I changed so wouldn't have to do that tuesday. Should have stayed here and shot tuesday didn't see but a total of 4 squrrels in 3 days.Checked my camera and it didn't have any deer on it but had turkeys on it every day but the last 3 days the turkeys didn't even come back.It was the dryest I have ever seen down there even the leaves on the dogwoods were curled up.Hope they get some rain before next month down there.
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Post by shooter on Sept 17, 2009 10:01:03 GMT -5
Richard,Another great report.Awesome shoo tin :oRichard Are you going to try and break 3000fps next week? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2009 15:55:00 GMT -5
Good report Richard, when you get it tweaked and if I ever find 110 & 130 I might try it in a 28", both powders are almost nonexistent around here. Since you are a long range kind of guy I thought you might find it interesting that my friend with the swinglock killed a lope @ 535 yds monday with a 275 parker over 82.5 grns of 4198. thats a long ride with a muzzleloader!....Bill
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Post by Richard on Sept 17, 2009 21:26:54 GMT -5
Hillbill........congratulate your friend for me. That is a super shot! He must have done his homework!! Thanks Shooter.........Am I going to break 3,000 next week??? Who knows? I will try some of RB's loads and some of mine. And see what happens ;D. The fact that accuracy is good at the velocities I shot indicates the sabots are not stressed yet. Thats a good sign. Herman........sorry about the "no deer --- only squirrels " It was a perfect day for shooting. Richard
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Post by edge on Sept 18, 2009 6:41:03 GMT -5
hillbill, since we don't know the velocity the pressure approximations can only be that, approximate!
If I plug that load into a 458 Lott I get 2,980 fps and a pressure of just over 62,000 psi. FPS Higher = more pressure, lower = less pressure.
edge.
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Post by Richard on Sept 18, 2009 20:14:40 GMT -5
Edge.........just curious, how you can plug that 15/57__110/130 load with a 200 gr. .40 cal bullet into a .458 Lott and come up with that pressure reading? It almost seems like you are comparing apples with oranges, no? Richard
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 16:47:54 GMT -5
edge, I dont know the pressures but I do know the velocitys......3168 @ muzzle/ 1637 @400. thats with a 275 be and 82.5 grns 4198. he has done extensive shooting all summer and has fired 2" groups @ 400 , sounds like a fairy tale but true. the true bc of a 275 be from his gun calculated to 400 yds is .214.....Bill
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Post by Richard on Sept 19, 2009 17:05:27 GMT -5
Opps! Sorry, I thought you were talking about my load Kind of thought it did not make any sense Richard
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Post by Dave W on Sept 19, 2009 18:50:11 GMT -5
edge, I dont know the pressures but I do know the velocitys......3168 @ muzzle/ 1637 @400. thats with a 275 be and 82.5 grns 4198. he has done extensive shooting all summer and has fired 2" groups @ 400 , sounds like a fairy tale but true. the true bc of a 275 be from his gun calculated to 400 yds is .214.....Bill Tom told me about your friend and his timing the load at 400yds . Heck of a confident shooter and accurate gun and load.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 20:26:29 GMT -5
he has done his homework and it certainly paid off.........Bill
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